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sailingjoe
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087
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 Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| cgoudie1 wrote: | Hummm,
I like your 20lbs = .5M rule of thumb though it doesn't really take
into account the nonlinear nature of wind force. |
Actually, I didn't make up the rule, I saw it on the Usernet forum used by a respectable author. It doesn't take in a lot of factors.
| cgoudie1 wrote: |
So if you are 100 lbs heavier than
a sailor using a 6.0 wouldn't your best bet be an 8.5? |
No, if I was using a 9.6, these others should have been on something 6.6 to 7.1
Now, everyone should suit themselves, these guys may not be strong enough to hold down bigger sails. Strength isn't a function of weight.
| cgoudie1 wrote: |
Actually, my best sailing buddy underweighs me by about 40 lbs, and
we rig .5 meters different around the 5 M range if we're both dead on.
Down at the 3M range we're pretty close, and at the 8M range I need
about a full meter larger sail to plane up at the same time.
If we both rig the same, I get more wave action and he gets to
sky more jumps. It's pretty amazing how tunable a modern sail is.
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I see this also all the time i.e. anecdotal information offered as proof. You can't prove or disprove generalities with stories about your personal experience with a few sailors. There's also the quite common misunderstanding that somehow someone's sail size is linked to their prowess. A half-pint guy will come up to me and state that it's blowing an X, such and such a size. He then expects to see me conform to his ideas. When I proceed to rig 2 meters bigger, his ego is crushed. He then has to find fault with my sailing. Three years later he'll post the erroneous information that I was struggling with the bigger sail. Actually, he had to find some kind of defense of his crushed ego.
| isobars wrote: | | sailingjoe wrote: | | Usually, I see them slogging for most of their TOW as too many people are scared to death to be over-powered. |
I see that VERY often, and chalk it up to any of these scenarios:
• Too new at the sport to develop the skills yet.
• Too new at a challenging venue.
• Just plain don't enjoy speed.
• Terrified of getting air.
• Too much board for the terrain.
Mike \m/ |
I'll spend a lot of time slogging-up wind if I am under-powered. Sometimes, it's unavoidable. Especially if you are using your largest sail. Many people don't want to buy big sails given the expense of a fully new rig. I've met a number of guys that have told me that 6.0 was the biggest sail they owned or were comfortable sailing. Most old school windsurfers have been brainwashed into thinking that once you go above 7 sq. meters you are into a new dimension. The reality would be that they probably need a bigger boom and mast and can't justify the expense. Perhaps once, a decade or two ago, they used something that big. I had an old Windsurfing Hawaii 7.4 which I sailed until the mylar came apart. I had newer sails in that size range and went out once to compare them. The Windsurfing Hawaii sail made me feel like I was in a straight jacket. The pertinent fact was that I was over-powered so easily in gusts, I had to fight the sail all the time. Using a new sail a sq. meter larger in the same winds gave me much better control. I didn't feel the gusts at all. Finally, rigging a sail, then going out and finding it isn't enough, do you really want to come back in and rig another? However, all your attributions are valid. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| sailingjoe wrote: | | rigging a sail, then going out and finding it isn't enough, do you really want to come back in and rig another? |
That, or a bigger board and/or fin ... whatever it takes to plane quickly, easily, and continuously. I'd far rather get hammered 10% of the time than slog 10% of the time. I'm rigged "right", and am positioned to expand my skills in both directions, if I slog and am totally overwhelmed in roughly equal amounts.
OTOH, when swimming my gear out to a raging windline after sunset, I am deliberately rigged way to big to ensure that even if the wind backs off, I can sail back in without too much of a swim.
Mike \m/ |
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sailingjoe
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| So, the answer to my question would be that you don't want to do it, but you do. Personally, I rarely come in and rig bigger, but sometimes will come in to rig smaller. the idea to rig super large to ensure a slog back after the wind dies is a good one. From now on, after what happened to me on Friday, when I pack the vehicle for a session and wonder whether I have taken something big enough in case the forecasts don't work out for me, I will definitely take the extra effort to ensure that. The wind doesn't conform to what you or the forecasters want it to do. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| sailingjoe wrote: | So, the answer to my question would be that you don't want to do it, but you do.
when I pack the vehicle for a session and wonder whether I have taken something big enough in case the forecasts don't work out for me, I will definitely take the extra effort to ensure that. |
Close. I want to plane full time, and if that requires rigging bigger, I want to rig bigger. If "bigger" = "too big", I'll do something else more fun or more productive.
I always take all my $#!+. That's right up there with "Never leave wind to find wind" and "Don't eat yellow snow".
Mike |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2599
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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Dude! I'm not trying to prove anything, you wanna rig 2 (or 3) M
bigger than anybody else, do it an enjoy, likewise, you wanna rig
2 or 3 M smaller than anybody else, have at it. Me, I'm gonna
rig dead on (for me).
You should come out and try your chops with the Rock Star and
I sometime in the Gorge. I'll keep a beer iced for ya,
but you might need to use it externally to keep the bruising
down after a day on the river.
-Craig
| sailingjoe wrote: | Strength isn't a function of weight.
| cgoudie1 wrote: |
Actually, my best sailing buddy under weighs me by about 40 lbs, and
we rig .5 meters different around the 5 M range if we're both dead on.
Down at the 3M range we're pretty close, and at the 8M range I need
about a full meter larger sail to plane up at the same time.
If we both rig the same, I get more wave action and he gets to
sky more jumps. It's pretty amazing how tunable a modern sail is.
|
I see this also all the time i.e. anecdotal information offered as proof. You can't prove or disprove generalities with stories about your personal experience with a few sailors. There's also the quite common misunderstanding that somehow someone's sail size is linked to their prowess. A half-pint guy will come up to me and state that it's blowing an X, such and such a size. He then expects to see me conform to his ideas. When I proceed to rig 2 meters bigger, his ego is crushed. He then has to find fault with my sailing. Three years later he'll post the erroneous information that I was struggling with the bigger sail. Actually, he had to find some kind of defense of his crushed ego.
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Marshall
Joined: 16 Apr 2000
Posts: 9
Location: Shakedown Street
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| Posted: Sun Oct 18, 2009 12:26 pm Post subject: |
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| lots of huckers get used in the gorge and oregon coast without battens breaking. check out some of those Dale Cook videos. I use a 5.6 and 4.8 all around the cape with no issues. Great sails unbelievable range and very durable |
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jingebritsen
Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 4:20 am Post subject: |
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The gorge is not the surf. Yes, those that are very skilled or don't take any chances never drop their sails in the surf.
I was just in some very nice surf yesterday. Got worked once. Happens to most. Please check with Bruce. He'll agree. Maybe swap out the tubes for rods. Keep in mind that tubes provide extra stability that is part of the design. I like the sail just fine.
Seen far too many newbie wave sailors repeat the same mistake, time and again. Most times they've been schooled about SW with tubes down here in FL. Others, up and down the East Coast have told me similar stories. People don't read their instruction manuals, or forget....
_________________
www.aerotechsails.com
www.exocet-original.com
www.iwindsurf.com
http://www.epicgearusa.com/ |
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sailingjoe
Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087
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| Posted: Mon Oct 19, 2009 6:43 am Post subject: |
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| cgoudie1 wrote: | Dude! I'm not trying to prove anything, you wanna rig 2 (or 3) M
bigger than anybody else, do it an enjoy, likewise, you wanna rig
2 or 3 M smaller than anybody else, have at it. Me, I'm gonna
rig dead on (for me).
You should come out and try your chops with the Rock Star and
I sometime in the Gorge. I'll keep a beer iced for ya,
but you might need to use it externally to keep the bruising
down after a day on the river.
-Craig
|
First of all, although I quoted you, I was stating fact, not challenging your statement. I never thought you were trying to prove anything. Anecdotal information is important, but we must compile a lot of it before we can determine fact. Second, I doubt if I will ever visit the Gorge as a sailor. It's not that I wouldn't like to, but there's just too much on my agenda, I rarely fly and life is too short. |
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