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Which big freeride fin?: True Ames Sweeper vs MFC Liquid Pro
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carl



Joined: 25 Feb 1997
Posts: 2487
Location: SF bay area

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had the same issue and problem.
My Naish Titan is only suggested for 9.0 max sail.
The Ezzy 9.5 sails fine on it though so, why not try it on your 145??
I unrolled and layed the Ezzy 9.5 on top of my old 9.0 Naish sail and it's almost exactly the same size. It looks like big Ezzys are cut a little small.

I also had a Techno Formula 170 that broke out the trimbox out in the water. I did have it repaired with a new tuttle box but it was definatly heavier after repair (and it's a heavy board to begin with). Probably there was still water inside too. It didn't seem like it got planing any earlier than the Naish Titan in light wind. Board weight may have something to do with early planing too, since my Titan is still very light.
So again I would try the 145 before buying another or repairing.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2012

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have both the Liquid Pro & True Ames Sweeper in 33 & 36 cm range. My Liquid Proís are power box fins & my True Ames are tuttle so used on different boards. The Liquid Pro feels more slippery compared to the TA Sweeper which has a more powerful feel to it. If you are a heavy rear footed sailor I think you would prefer the TA Sweeper as the Liquid Pro is more prone to spin out if you load your back foot. Of course my comparison is done on different boards.

Didnít your board come with a MFC RC 48 fin? I would try that first with your 9.5.

Coachg
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea, go big...on the board that is Smile! Don't go over the board though! Something around 80~90 cm wide is more then enough for this sail. If you are not competing / and you are obviously not/ a formula type will be an overkill and will start looking like obsession . In comparisson my biggest board is a Supersport 79 as in 79cm wide and my bigest sail is a 9.0 Retro /I realized that everything comes easyer with camberless sails and got rid of the cambered/. I'm 170 lb and also sail on lakes and this setup gets me going in 10 mph wind. Since I don't want to get any bigger then this /it's not fun, gets expensive and creates enormous storage and logistical problems/, my only other options is to improve on my pumping technique and to get as light and strong/no way Very Happy/ as possible . Since I'm more then happy with this threshold I simply switch to the SUP if it's lighter or just drink beer Wink
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ct-rex



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

carl wrote:
I had the same issue and problem.
My Naish Titan is only suggested for 9.0 max sail.
The Ezzy 9.5 sails fine on it though so, why not try it on your 145??


Yes, that's the plan. Funny you had the same issue with the Bic 170. Thanks for the post!
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ct-rex



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

adywind wrote:
Yea, go big...on the board that is Smile! Don't go over the board though! Something around 80~90 cm wide is more then enough for this sail. If you are not competing / and you are obviously not/ a formula type will be an overkill and will start looking like obsession . In comparisson my biggest board is a Supersport 79 as in 79cm wide and my bigest sail is a 9.0 Retro /I realized that everything comes easyer with camberless sails and got rid of the cambered/. I'm 170 lb and also sail on lakes and this setup gets me going in 10 mph wind. Since I don't want to get any bigger then this /it's not fun, gets expensive and creates enormous storage and logistical problems/, my only other options is to improve on my pumping technique and to get as light and strong/no way Very Happy/ as possible . Since I'm more then happy with this threshold I simply switch to the SUP if it's lighter or just drink beer Wink


Thanks, Adywind, esp. for the suggestion about the 80-90cm board. I'll see what I can do on 145L first!
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to add that to achieve early planing I have a very light wind-centric kit trim. My foot straps are in and to front, my boom is chin high, my sail is baggy/little DH and neutral OH/. This trim keeps the rig upright and it starts to get uncomfortable when the wind picks up. At this point I start an endless moving things/pulling strings and by the time my brain finally fires up and I switch to smaller gear I'm most often then not almost exhausted. It's time for the protein bar and energy drink Very Happy


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My SS/Retro light wind combo
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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 237

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ct-rex wrote:
Thanks, Adywind, esp. for the suggestion about the 80-90cm board. I'll see what I can do on 145L first!

Not very original, but WISE! Wink
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5908

PostPosted: Fri Mar 08, 2013 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In choosing a fin, you might want to consider a 50cm Tectonics Mirage too. It's more of a course slalom design that increases area, particularly at the tip, over the fins you're considering. I have one that I used with an 8.1 Windwing Race, and now with an 8.3 Windwing Hammer, on a 1998 9'4" Mike's Lab that's only about 23 3/4" wide. I have to say though, the straps are located very outboard. While it could be argued that it's a big fin for the board, I found that it was ideal for maximizing the low end (12-13mph average), but it still was a breeze to handle in higher winds (17-18mph average). The key to handling a big fin is outboard strap positions. Straps too far inboard really puts you at a disadvantage getting the needed leverage over the fin.

Lastly, when I originally bought the board new in 1998, I used a 46cm Tectonics Spitfire in combination with a 7.7 Windwing Race. I worked great with that sail, but when I bought the 8.1, the fin just didn't have much low end. The 50cm Mirage made all the difference in the world, and it didn't feel draggy or hard to keep down in higher winds. Also, the larger fin area gave me great upwind performance.
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ct-rex



Joined: 07 Mar 2013
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Mar 11, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

U2U2U2 wrote:
the length is the common measure on fins, what you need to be aware of is the area .

FX the T/A in 48cm length (area is 435cm2) is less then the Black Project Fin 47cm (area 451cm2) , the 50cm T/A sweeper is 495cm2
the MFC areas are not quoted but you can email and ask.


If anyone is interested, MFC did get back to me by e-mail and said that their 50 cm fin is 450 cm2.
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Sailboarder



Joined: 10 Apr 2011
Posts: 452

PostPosted: Tue Mar 12, 2013 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use a Kona 46 fin (very similar or identical to MFC Liquid Pro) with a 9.0 Kona sail without any problems. Other people using the same Kona One say that a 48 slalom fin will increase early planning somewhat at the expense of top speed. I have yet to try it.

I also find that when there is less wind, there is less chop and board speed tends to pick up (relative to wind speed). With more speed you need less fin. The net result is that the 46 seems to have a wide range, from the 7.5 to the 9.0 at least, caused by the change in chop.

I suggest you stick with your current fin, try your 9.5 and decide afterward if you need a different fin.
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