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Benghazi-gate
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4039

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beg to differ, but the diplomats were immediately online with their superiors, and then the military pleading for rescue. The Navy Seals were only 2 hours away. The last 2 ex-Seals died 8 hours later according to the timeline.

There are reports that the guys (Seals) were ready to go, but were told to "stand down". They are pissed.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1638
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The argument goes, there wasn't enought time to do anything successful, well that is a non-starter, there is a huge miscalculation with that.
The only way that can be valid, is if they knew how long the attack was going to last, even before it was concluded.
Thus it's a BS excuse.
They were just chickenshit, and hoping that nobody was going to get hurt.
How noble.

Also from what I understand, there is only one person who can order a stand down, in a situation like this, only one, the POTUS.
We still don't know where he was, or what he was doing, he went off the grid for some 7 hours.

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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5761

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I see is a continuing hate for President Obama and former Secretary of State Clinton. No doubt about it, just more Republican piss poor politics and a feinted drama that will accomplish absolutely nothing.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2631

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
All I see is a continuing hate for President Obama and former Secretary of State Clinton. No doubt about it, just more Republican piss poor politics and a feinted drama that will accomplish absolutely nothing.

It's that plus a rabid rightie preemptive strike against 2016 Hilary.
.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14032

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 4:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="LHDR"]
isobars wrote:
1. the dishonesty in this particular case did not harm or help anyone

2. It would be very different if, for example, the administration had falsely claimed that people with weapons of mass destruction were behind the attack …

3. Now that would be the kind of dishonesty and lying that is unacceptable, and, thankfully, that is not going to happen with our current President.

4. Was it because of a protest or was it because of guys out for a walk one night who decided to go kill Americans?

5. What difference at this point does it make?

6. just be the latest example of his all too common despicable distortions.


1. Let’s see who that lie hurt.
A. The government and most corporations of any size, have for many decades relied on the Lessons Learned procedure. Something goes wrong, investigators determine the cause, and a Lessons Learned case file, IF FOLLOWED, ensures that never happens again. Lying about the cause short circuits the entire process. This administration’s abject and oft-repeated refusal to admit radical jihad, its objectives, and its impacts has gotten many people killed already and I submit it will get thousands killed in the near future.

B. This lie hurt the left wing media in the short term by exposing its complicity in government deception of the populace. Fortunately, some of them have gotten burned badly enough by getting caught lying that they may actually start checking some sources instead of printing their “news” straight from Obama’s teleprompter. Too bad this coverup and their complicity didn’t prevent the most harmful fallout of all, the fallout the coverup was designed to prevent, infinitely the most powerful harm of all, maybe even over the last several decades, C below:

C. This successful lie allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization*. Just as the rest of the world was beginning to realize that socialism does not work and was moving away from it, along comes this idiot and his clearly demonstrated goal of promoting various forms and degrees of it worldwide, beginning at home.

* My wife, who follows current events more than I do and has worked more directly with all aspects of Washington, DC than I have, wanted me to add the word, "arguably" to this statement. I could, but a) that's self-evident because it's a studied opinion rather than an irrefutable fact and b) I gave it more thought and can argue the point. So no "arguably", and I still can't think of a living person more dangerous to the nation's and thus the world's economy, security, freedom, and many other measures of civilization.

2. Show us one lie about WMD by any past administrations. I’ve listened to many scores of debates by “civilians” and learned men on whether Bush lied about WMDs (or anything else of comparable substance), without hearing any such lies proved. Face it; you’re blinded by hatred of the war, maybe even war in general. That, or you know something the historians don’t about Bush vs WMDs.

3. Several very prominent present historians and economists and government agencies (e.g., the CBO) say Obama’s irrefutable lies -- not even counting the harms he promised (e.g., socialized medicine) -- have already done very grave harm to our nation. (No; I;m not going to debate Obama’s lies; we’ve posted plenty of proof here before.)

4. She knew before the actual smoke cleared neither was true.

5. See #1 above. Ask the parents to whom she and her partners in crime promised the truth. Maybe even see what she reveals in retaliation now that the White House threw her under the bus. This is a very long-standing Clinton tactic: obscure the facts long enough to say, “That’s old news”. It’s not going to work this time like it did with Lewinski, Rose Law Firm, etc.

6. Show us two examples. If they’re common, it should be easy, which is why I said two, not one.
Good luck.


Last edited by isobars on Sat May 11, 2013 8:24 pm; edited 1 time in total
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1394

PostPosted: Sat May 11, 2013 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
...This successful lie allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization....


Oh, for chrissakes...

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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1638
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

feuser wrote:
isobars wrote:
...This successful lie allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization....


Oh, for chrissakes...

Who's chris?

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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 100

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 1:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
LHDR wrote:
.. this would just be the latest example of his all too common despicable distortions.

6. Show us two examples. If they’re common, it should be easy, which is why I said two, not one. Good luck.
Even though Isobars and everyone else who cares knows what I am referring to, I'll give examples of what I consider despicable distortions.

" [Obama is] proposing to build a half-trillion-dollars-a-year Hitlerian Youth Corps with the power of the U.S. military to push a partisan agenda at the expense of the taxpayer, ..." and "Google Obama's Civilian National Security Force and tell me how it will differ from the Youth Corps or, in construction if not immediate function, from Saddam's inner security force ... "

" Couple that with [Obama's] oft-stated and continuously demonstrated life-long preference for Marxist, socialist, and communist objectives and company, and the threat of another Obama administration is as obvious as his deliberate choice of terrorist Bill Ayres' living room as the setting for his formal, public, political coming-out proclamation. " or as stated above " This successful lie allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization .. "
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2631

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 6:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
feuser wrote:
isobars wrote:
...This successful lie allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization....


Oh, for chrissakes...

Who's chris?

Who's Ben Ghazi?
.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14032

PostPosted: Sun May 12, 2013 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR wrote:
isobars wrote:
Show us two examples.

Even though Isobars and everyone else who cares knows what I am referring to, I'll give examples of what I consider despicable distortions.

1. [Obama is] proposing to build a half-trillion-dollars-a-year Hitlerian Youth Corps with the power of the U.S. military to push a partisan agenda at the expense of the taxpayer, ..." and "Google Obama's Civilian National Security Force

2. Couple that with [Obama's] oft-stated and continuously demonstrated life-long preference for Marxist, socialist, and communist objectives and company, and

3. his deliberate choice of terrorist Bill Ayres' living room as the setting for his formal, public, political coming-out proclamation.

4. This successful lie ...

5. allowed the reelection of the one human on the planet most dangerous to the future of its civilization .. "


Thanks for responding directly and without ad hominem. That's rare here.

1. I pointed readers to sources so they can decide for themselves. As I've said many times, it's not my job to do everyone's homework or make their decisions for them. That dollar figure and the power of Americore and this spinoff are straight from "The One's" mouth and Americore's "get out the [Democratic] vote partisanship" is exceptionally well supported. My only distortion was the H word, which is the closest comparison my little brain could come up with while typing. I'd argue that the comparison is supported by recent news stories (the lady who apologized for the IRS this week has been shown by her own hand to have know about that federal crime two years ago, and the agencies forcing wealthy seniors into accepting food stamps "to help their nutrition" have been busted.)

Try again.

2. Straight from his own book.

3. Straight from newspaper headlines at the time, with photographs. But you'll never hear about it from BSNBC.

4. I assume you know by now that that's indisputable.

5. Clearly my opinion, which I can support with facts, logic, and the comparable conclusions of many men and women infinitely more qualified than I. Many of the facts are supported by the public record or even by Obama himself; whether you accept the ensuing logic and conclusions is a personal decision. The closest other individual contenders I can think of for that dishonor in my adult lifetime were Jimmy Carter and Kruschev, and they're no longer a threat. Ahmadinejad and Kim Jong Un might preempt Obama if they had a bit more credibility.

"Distortions" generally imply intent. #1 is very well supported by the public record, #2-4 are facts, and I can support #5 adequately until someone comes up with a better candidate.
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