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Jibing
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 700

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 3:12 am    Post subject: Jibing Reply with quote

Here's what I don't get, entering the jibe, back hand further back, sheet in, unhook, back foot out of strap and onto leeward rail, extend front arm and pull down on boom at the same time?
I have to pull down on the boom to keep the board from hopping out of control but how can I do that while the front arm is extended and I'm carving the board and rig to leeward? It's like pushing and pulling at the same time. Question
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PeconicPuffin



Joined: 07 Jun 2004
Posts: 1214

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 7:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When you extend yor front arm it goes forward and down, not simply forward (or forward and up as it would in a jump). The downward pressure from your front arm should be moderate...don't go nuts. If your weight... Your hips are forward and over the front foot straps you will be in goo shape.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14226

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The more quickly we git 'er done (i.e., the less time we waste running downwind over chop and swell), the less we bounce, the less speed we lose, and the less time we're subject to simply falling over. All that gave me fits for years (I could find no useful lessons or videos anywhere then) until I decided to speed up the whole process by tightening my jibes. That was one of two distinct overnight epiphanies in my 33 year WSing history, as my online jibe tutorial explains in detail. Done right, it eliminates the need for pressing down on the booms as required by these downwind pack-a-lunch sightseeing excursions so many sailors do all day. After all, we achieve some forward rail pressure just by getting the rig and our cg forward, so unless we dawdle long enough to run over row after row after row of speed bumps, we can create a custom-shaped turning embankment, a trench dug by our inside rail, as a mini-trampoline to execute virtually the whole jibe on it.

Of course, sail and board size are a factor, as the tutorial addresses, but I've gotten PM and face-to-face expressions of appreciation from many sailors on multiple continents for the useful advice they got from it once they got below something like 7.5 meters and huge boards.

If you haven't seen Mike Fick's Jibe Tips, Google them. Unfortunately, the newest version is on GorgeOnline.com, which has been hacked into a malware nightmare and can no longer be safely accessed.
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johnl



Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1176
Location: Hood River OR

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would rather slow it down. Assuming you are doing wide turns and not tight turns you need to be slow and smooth. Unhook, relax, take rear foot out of strap, relax, apply pressure into the turn smoothly. If you do this quickly you disrupt the board in the water which makes it bounce around. It isn't uncommon for me to unhook and the sail for 50 feet or more before removing my rear foot. Every sudden movement disrupts the board and slows you down..

Also it was old school to put the rear foot on the rail near the rear footstrap. Then it became behind the front footstrap. Current method is to put it behind the front footstrap facing forward. Although these are fine points you can make a jibe with your foot in any of the places. Just some places are better with the new board designs..

As to the sail, reach back, sheet I, extend your front arm, then follow the sail into the turn. Your front heel should be off the deck and pulling against the strap.

Another thing while you are sailing your arms should be shoulder width on the boom. If you have a very wide grip your front hand could be too far forward. This messes up your arm position when you try to reach back..

Learning to jibe on a forum however is not the preferred method.. Sad
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14226

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Beaglebuddy, note carefully the optional, important caveat johnl deliberately and accurately wrote:
I would rather slow it down. Assuming you are doing wide turns and not tight turns you [your movements, not your board speed] need to be slow and smooth.(

Your rapidity of motion and your preferred jibe radius will mutually influence one another. i.e., you can't rush his method (for the reasons he gave) and you can't dawdle with mine (because your board turns from inbound beam reach to outbound broad reach within a heartbeat or two, before which you should be sheeted in on the new broad reach. That kind of rush is unnecessary -- but a helluva lot of fun, effortless, and virtually instantaneous -- on glassy water.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14226

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just went back to your first tacking post and realized that you're just getting comfortable in the straps and are on 200 liter boards. Forget just about everything I've said here and ignore my jibing tips*, as both are intended expressly for sailors comfortable ripping at full speed in the straps on smaller boards. About the only thing I've said applicable to you is that planing through a jibe generally requires high speed and an aggressive, fully committed attitude and stance, two things more common with more advanced sailors. Keep trying, but don't expect to go from straps to planing jibes in just a year or two without professional lessons. Getting two engineering degrees took me much less time and frustration than going from straps to jibes without pro lessons. Keep trying; you surely will NOT learn to jibe if you rely solely on tacking (which should become an easy and consistent single hop from port to starboard on boards that size).

* And on second thought, I see no reason my hip thrust carve impetus shouldn't work with big normal (I don't know squat about Formula) daggerless (aka short) boards, as it's just the ancient concept of leading turns in most sports with our hips rather than our shoulders.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2003

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Jibing Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
but how can I do that while the front arm is extended and I'm carving the board and rig to leeward?

By having your knees bent, I mean really bent as they should be in big chop/swell. You should be looking up through your boom. And yes, pushing and pulling at the same time is a good example of one of the first lesson's at an ABK camp. Independent arm motion.

Coachg
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1950
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy, I don't see where you posted the gear that you are trying to jibe, but perhaps I can suggest some general answers to your questions.

Over sheeting the sail will apply mast base pressure all by itself. Reaching back just makes it easier to do with more leverage. But it also causes the mast to drop forward and to leeward. You probably already know that from messing around with a rigged sail on dry land -or maybe by seeing good duck jibers who pull the clew back and past their ear when jibing the sail.

Another way to describe the sheeting action is that of pulling back on a bow string before you release the arrow. As the mast falls toward the inside of the turn our bodies naturally follow. Here is where typical technique issues arise as many bend at the waist and ultimately go over the front. The proper technique is to bend the knees and drive your front foot onto its toes, lifting hard against the strap. This locks you onto the board and really helps jibing across chop.

When you release the sail with your back hand, rotate your front foot out of the strap and step forward with your back foot to follow the clew. Pretend a string attaches the clew to your back foot. It's important not to step forward before rotating your front foot out of the strap. Don't lift it out, just turn in out.

The wider the board the farther back you should step with your step forward or the board can bog down dues to its width. The other tip that applies to most boards but certainly to wide boards is that you must lift the clew a few cms to initiate your jibe. Doing this moves the COE forward and helps start the turn. You can do this easier by reaching back on the boom, just like always.

As odd as it may seem, try to jibe in the gusts, not the lulls as your exit should be more powered and balanced due to higher board speed.

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adywind



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 213

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Check those top instructions and videos and pay attention especially on where you should look during every single phase-its of utmost importance /at the entry phase is more helpful to look back at the boards wake until you learn to sheet in/. For the carve gybe you need to lose your fear from speed and start seeking it-its imperative. Speed and aggressiveness.
Gybe:
http://www.jemhall.com/technique/gybe.asp

Carve gybe:
http://www.jemhall.com/technique/carve-gybe.asp


Last edited by adywind on Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 313

PostPosted: Sat Jun 22, 2013 6:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you enter the turn with speed, you can sheet the sail in. This will allow you to lean forward and carve the board onto its edge. If you sheet the sail out and you gain speed going into the turn you must lean back to counter the pull of the sail. That makes it impossible to get the board on its edge. The board will be flat and bonce on any chop. The curved part of any board is forward. Speed with you weight forward and the sail sheeted in will get the board on its edge and the curved front of the board into the water....That makes for a smooth turn with a lot less bounce....Hope this helps...
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