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Obama vs. the Tea Party--who can lead?
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1848

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

reinerehlers wrote:
coboardhead wrote:
The government pays for almost 50 percent of the health care in the US.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear. The government doesn't pay for sh!t! They take my money, your money, our money and dispurse it on our behalf.


coboardhead wrote:
The various players in healthcare have significant political power. .
This is the biggest problem in "affordable" health care.


O.K. However you want to say it...I am not in the mood to argue semantics...carry on.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 1323
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

joew wrote:
NW 30, "BHO will basically have handed the key to Putin to be superpower of the world" WHAT combination of drugs and alcohol were you imbibing to come up with this pearl of wisdom??? As has been said,"you can have your own opinion but not your own facts" The Russians ( not the Soviets by the way) Preside over a derelict shadow of their former military power. Ever seen those shots of abandoned, rusting missile subs tied up listing in port?? Every time they try to flex their muscles and field a naval taskforce in some sputtering exercise, they manage to showcase their poor level of maintenance and readiness, If only a shirtless Putin could hurl missiles into orbit with his bulging arms, NW 30, do a little homework before you get up in front of the class! Russian superpower, my ass!!

You missed the point, what I mean is not who has the biggest stick, even though our big stick is purposely shrinking, it's who has the most international clout, it's currently being given over to the Russians.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Russia's nimble footwork on Syria
9-11-13


Vladimir Putin is often accused of sticking spanners in the works of international diplomacy.

But if Russia's initiative on Syria is successful, it would be a huge diplomatic coup for the Kremlin leader.

Averting a US military strike on a key ally in the Middle East, while removing the threat from Syrian President Bashar al-Assad's chemical weapons: that would already be seen as a stunning success for Moscow.

According to several Russian newspapers this morning, it would also allow US President Barack Obama to "save face", by removing the need for a military action most Americans are uneasy with.

On the issue of Syria, Russia seems to have kept one step ahead of the United States.

While President Obama has been accused of U-turns and zigzags, of drawing red lines and being slow to act on them, President Putin has been as solid and unshakeable as the Kremlin walls: consistently opposed to a US strike.

The Kremlin's not for turning. What's more, Russia believes that its message has been getting through and that its tough stance has helped dilute international support for US military action.

Last week, the UN, the EU and the Vatican all expressed their support for a political solution.

Even if the Russian initiative eventually unravels amid bickering and paralysis in the Security Council, Moscow can still argue that at least it tried to find a peaceful solution.

Devil in the detail

But what are the chances of it succeeding?

It will not be easy. The Russians may have come up with a proposal. They may even have persuaded Damascus to agree to it. But, as yet, there is no concrete plan. Not yet, anyway.

Russia has yet to provide details of how it sees the disarmament process working in Syria, in the middle of a civil war: how would stockpiles be verified, where would they be held, what would be the time frame?

At their talks in Geneva on Thursday, the US Secretary of State John Kerry will expect the Russian Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov to provide vital detail.

The potential sticking point is over the threat of force.

President Putin says Moscow's initiative can only work if the United States and its allies rule out military action against Damascus.

But President Obama has made it clear he believes it is only the threat of force which has made a diplomatic solution possible.

In the UN Security Council it is hard to imagine the US, France and UK agreeing to a non-binding resolution that would not threaten President Assad with serious consequences if he fails to comply with the plan.

Even if a compromise is reached and a diplomatic solution found, this will not bring an end to the fighting.

According to this morning's edition of the Russian daily, Vedomosti, Moscow's proposal "concerns only chemical weapons and Obama's red line. But not the whole Syrian conflict, which will continue."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-24045650
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Will BHO agree to remove the threat of force to make the agreement happen?
Who would be the international winner then?

_________________
I don't drink the 'cool' aid, I drink tequila, it's more honest.
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 3606

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
I agree with most, Steve...although , we are in no position to smack Russia. Stat: 2012 saw the 1% own the largest percentage of the country's wealth since.....gulp....1928.


Yes, I read that article! I had the same gulp....

Poinster brings up what conservatives fear. Many of us would have rather had homeowners bailed out than Wall Street. Redistribution does nothing to raise money because productive capital moves to shelters and our govt overlords. I'd rather make it easier for medium size businesses to compete with the mega corps. Easier to produce jobs rather than higher tax rates.

IOW, grow the middle class base, rather than worry about a few billionaires. I do not covet their money or lifestyles. A populist candidate who incites peoples desire to compete and succeed rather than covet will win the next election IMO.
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reinerehlers



Joined: 25 Jul 2001
Posts: 699

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/globe-investor/inside-the-market/market-view-video/video-market-view-who-are-canadas-1-per-cent/article14243530/

Watch this...the 1% should be ashamed? Hell no, not when we pay a good portion of that 42% of the taxes plus the self employed (a large part of that 1%) create jobs in the process.


Last edited by reinerehlers on Thu Sep 12, 2013 10:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13282

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nw30 wrote:
You missed the point, what I mean is not who has the biggest stick, even though our big stick is purposely shrinking, it's who has the most international clout, it's currently being given over to the Russians.

It occurred to me days ago that, just maybe, Putin and Assad set this entire scenario up in advance after Obama publicly drew the red line he now publicly
denies he drew:
1. Exactly one year after Obama drew the chemical weapons line, Assad crossed it.
2. Obama does exactly what was expected: nothing.
Score: Assad One, Obama Zero.
3. Russia offers to save the world from WW III.
Score: Assad One, Putin One, Obama Zero.
4. U.S. backs down completely.
5. Assad gives up some chemical weapons and lets inspectors look at some empty buildings. Huzzahs for Assad and Putin.
Score: Assad Two, Putin Two, Obama Zero.
6. Assad gasses more people whenever the hell he wants. Obama blames Bush, and U.S. credibility drops to zero point zero.

Is our incompetent president being played like a violin? Will Syria and Russia, with one percent of the military power of the U.S., emasculate the Great Satan just by yanking strings?

What ELSE explains Putin's help? After all, he is still the ultimate KGB chief whose hero is Joseph Stalin.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks pointster for the Business Insider article. In my view Harry Blodget offers us an insightful take on our current business picture and why it can be considered out of whack. While I'm never been a real supporter of unions, it must be recognized that they played an important role in growth in years past, and they were arguably at the root of middle class expansion.

But, if you really consider what Blodget was saying, it comes down to sharing more of the wealth of corporate/business earnings. Employees that get paid well work to grow demand in the economy. When you think about it, it doesn't have to be unions and the pressure that they bring to the table that are the source of better pay. In reality, history provides a telling story. Henry Ford generated tremendous growth for Ford Motor Co. by hiring, training and paying his workers more than the going rate in the industry. Moreover, he reduced employee turnover and greatly improved their performance. Of course, Ford's manufacturing model was the key driving factor that made everything work so exceptionally well. Years later, it's ironic that Ford was ultimately forced to accept unions.


Last edited by swchandler on Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5440

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some folks are still stuck in the Cold War mentality.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2351

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr. Fick-shun wrote:

Is our incompetent president....

White House incompetency peaked during 2000-2008, ending in Jan. '09.

Suck it up and live with it, Mikey.
.
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keycocker



Joined: 10 Jul 2005
Posts: 3018

PostPosted: Wed Sep 11, 2013 10:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"it's who has the most international clout, it's currently being given over to the Russians. "
Is it possible to hand all our international clout over to the Russians with a media event we will have troubling remembering in a year(six months) ((one month))....LOL
We are still keeping our pervasive media and films, enviable lifestyle, giant economic power, scary army and friendly attitude to folks in other countries, right?
In all my life as an expat, we are pretty sure those are a big source of our clout in the world.
There are a lot of folks who genuinely hate and fear foreigners in general and Muslims in particular, or any group that wears turbans.
They are damaging our clout in the world big time.
I would bet 90% of young educated folks in the Muslim world want to get a house in LA far from extremists but near some good surfing.
The Rabid wing of the Right is making enemies of these people and that is very bad for the future of this country.
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joew



Joined: 18 Jul 1999
Posts: 149

PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2013 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

True story, Keycocker, Individual Americans are generally well regarded overseas, even in the middle east, as a lot, we are friendly, generous and have a view of the world view unbiased by ancient animosities. Mostly we are respected for our technical capabilities, and our skills at getting things accomplished, no matter what we have to overcome. Europeans carry the baggage of their collective colonial legacies when in the third world. Somehow People are able to differentiate between actions of the American gov't and their regard for individual Americans.
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