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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:29 am Post subject: |
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swchandler wrote: |
Are most Americans really smart and on top the their game? When it comes to planning for a comfortable retirement, it would appear that they aren't. |
Bummer, you're another one who has no faith in the intelligence of the people of this country.
The government is so much smarter, so much so, that they can create this awesome Obamacare website.
Oooooooooookaaaaaaaaaaay. |
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MalibuGuru
Joined: 11 Nov 1993 Posts: 9300
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 12:46 am Post subject: |
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There are millions of people who are losing their doctors and health plans. As predicted thousands of doctors are not participating. Even more egregious are the cancer patients who as of next month will have to switch doctors and hospitals.
Millions do not even know if they'll be able to afford their new deductibles and premiums. Can you imagine being a cancer patient and now having to scurry to find a new doctor who has to get to know you all over again. This is inhuman and borders the actions of well know fascists and dictators who wave their hands as God might. Obama is nothing but a puny over bearing dictator as far as I'm concerned.
We might all have sympathy for those left out in the cold by his short sighted policies. Thank God not 1 liberal or conservative Republican voted for this horrible law. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 2:27 am Post subject: |
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"There are millions of people who are losing their doctors and health plans. As predicted thousands of doctors are not participating."
Bard, where are you getting your information? Where's the proof? Most doctors treat patients from many different insurance plans already. That's part of their normal business reality. Why would they suddenly abandon everything? When you think about it, the insurance marketplace consists of virtually the same companies. Moreover, insurance plans under the ACA are essentially the same as group plans that have been around for years. Overall, far more folks will have better comprehensive insurance coverage.
I serious doubt you can backup your imagined nightmare, particularly since the ACA doesn't really roll out until 2014. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 4:06 am Post subject: |
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NW30, after your first day of windsurfing, did you have everything wired? No, it took time and effort to reap the rewards in the sport. It's the same with a huge program like the ACA. After we have 6 months under our belt living with the ACA, you'll see that much of the anxiety and anger you're experiencing now was wasted energy. Much ado about nothing. Then again, maybe you'll still be furious and beside yourself in frustration, but I think that most folks will realize the value and peace of mind in having a good health insurance policy.
I often wonder whether you've ever really had a serious health problem in your life. I've had a number of them, and this year I had another big one. Having health insurance has made a huge difference in how things turned out. Believe me, out of nowhere you can suddenly be on the hook for $100K in healthcare costs. Not an easy position if you don't have health insurance. Yet, starting in 2014, most Americans will be far better off being covered by a good health insurance plan built on the patient rights in the ACA. |
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feuser
Joined: 29 Oct 2002 Posts: 1508
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 7:35 am Post subject: |
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nw30 wrote: |
Yikes, you live in a state of serious fear, if that's what you really believe, I'm glad I don't live in your mind.
And with that, me, or anybody else is supposed to take you seriously?
Sorry, Homey don't play dat. |
Fear? Nope, I am not afraid of the alquaida commie boogie man, for example. I just "do" facts, and so should you if you want to participate in the discussion like a big boy.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/06/05/bankruptcy.medical.bills/ _________________ florian - ny22
http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/ |
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pueno
Joined: 03 Mar 2007 Posts: 2807
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 8:23 am Post subject: |
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The implication we can take from this article is that when individuals and families declare bankruptcy, their outstanding bills, including mortgages, go unpaid.
Some of those unpaid bills are for small business owners, who must absorb the loss -- "Joe the Plumber" down the street, for example.
Some of those unpaid bills are for large businesses -- mortgages at banks, fuel and energy (monthly gas credit card), credit cards, or student debt.
Small businesses might themselves be forced into bankruptcy; Joe might lose his plumbing business to the bank, for example. Large businesses simply spread their losses over the others who are able to pay their bills on time. Interest rates increase to cover these losses, product costs increase. Banks pay less interest on deposits, because they must withhold cash to cover greater losses.
In all cases, responsible consumers one way or 'nother eventually pay for those bankruptcies -- which might have been avoided or dramatically reduced if the uninsured had proper health insurance to cover the unexpected medical expenses.
The need for health insurance for all is not to promote socialism but to provide financial stability to individuals, including the "individual freedoms, individual choices" proponents, such as NW, Mr. B, Mr. G, Mikey, and so many others.
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 9:41 am Post subject: |
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Reading all the drivel from NW 30 makes me yearn for the days of Mr Gybe. |
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coboardhead
Joined: 26 Oct 2009 Posts: 4303
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 10:16 am Post subject: |
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NW
You continue to argue we needed insurance reform, but not too much? The reason we ended up with the ACA is because it was palatable to the large insurance companies and would disrupt less of the current health care system.
Stevenbard's view of millions of sick people crawling around on the streets crying for a doctor may have been closer to reality if we would have shoved comprehensive reform on the insurance industry without something in return.
BTW, Stevenbard, show me some proof that thousands of patients in the middle of a cancer treatment will lose their providers. Many of the PPO contracts have exceptions for ongoing care and/or emergent care. FWIW, my wife avoids almost all PPO contracts, yet most, if not all, of the insurers reimburse her anyway.
Colorado, at least and maybe other States, require this reimbursement if some of these conditions are met.
There will be extreme situations. If you cherry pick the data. you will find the "truth" you are seeking. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:11 am Post subject: |
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This is what passes for deep thought in the deeply paranoid John Birch world:
Quote: | cbh, I know that there are problems with the system before Obamacare, I never said anything in that direction, sure there have been some problems which is why I'm in favor of some kind of health insurance reform. But I'm not in favor of the entire system of healthcare to be reformed, that's just being greedy for power when you want to reform the entire system, when only a portion of it needs to be altered. |
Of course, there are no specifics. Of course, there was not a single vote to be had for the ACA from Republicans, despite the bill having started as a fundamentally Republican idea.
The issue for Republicans, from the sane to the lunatic fringe, is to regain power. Thus, they put up with Obama haters of every stripe. Thus, there are no counter-proposals, or real political strategy. It isn't about the ACA, it is about resenting Obama winning--huge and then pretty big. Nothing more. |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002 Posts: 9120 Location: at a computer
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Posted: Tue Nov 05, 2013 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Mac...we are about to enter an interesting period of time. Mr Christie will win big tonight in a deep blue state...then he will turn his sight on the White House. Will the Michelle Bachmann wing of the wingnuts support the man who cuddled up with Mr Obama in the aftermath of Sandy, while Thurston was desperately trying to pry himself into the White House? we will see. |
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