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ghost1
Joined: 11 Mar 2013
Posts: 56
Location: Burlington Ontario, Canada
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 Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| boardsurfr wrote: |
Back to the OP's original post. ghost1 actually described two different problems. The first one, having a hard time to get out of the harness lines, is typically a sign of harness lines being too short. The second one, involuntary hooking out when going over chop, can be a sign of lines being too long. So what is it?
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Regarding difficulty getting out of the lines. I see now I didn't explain it correctly and it is causing confusion. I think my lines are so low that I am accidentally hooking in a lot. And when I unhook that's fine, but I often accidentally end back in the lines. So I go on my tippy toes sometimes to avoid this. So I meant to say it's hard to stay out of the lines.
I was thinking about buying some NP adjustable lines 26"-30" so I can adjust if they are too short. Are these good?
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| ghost1 wrote: | | it's hard to stay out of the lines. |
Other than during jibing, tricks, or radical DTL ocean wave sailing, why would you want to be unhooked? Harness lines conserve energy.
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johnl
Joined: 05 Jun 1994
Posts: 1330
Location: Hood River OR
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| ghost1 wrote: |
Regarding difficulty getting out of the lines. I see now I didn't explain it correctly and it is causing confusion. I think my lines are so low that I am accidentally hooking in a lot. And when I unhook that's fine, but I often accidentally end back in the lines. So I go on my tippy toes sometimes to avoid this. So I meant to say it's hard to stay out of the lines.
I was thinking about buying some NP adjustable lines 26"-30" so I can adjust if they are too short. Are these good? |
I think adjustable lines are a good way to find your length. But they won't compare to mono lines. Even if put next to each other. Mono lines are VERY stiff at the base and hold their position.
In my experience when I "auto hook" it tends to be incorrect stance or incorrect sail position. Mostly during jibes. It seems to happen to a few times a season. Normally during the beginning of the season or when I'm tired. Mono lines contribute more to this because of the way they hang.
When you cinch down your mono lines, make sure you have the lines hanging down and not out. If you cinch them down out, then they will stay in that position....
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 11:57 am Post subject: |
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It did cause some confusion indeed, but the debate was worthy and it didn't escalate into a pissing match which is an achievement 
Back to your question I was also experiencing the auto hooking during gybes which made me switch completely to seat harness with my bigger board and sails. I use the waist one only for b&j with my FSW now. I also use inflight adjustable lines on both of my booms-I have the cheaper model Chinook which are a bit crappy. I guess I'm a bit on the geeky side of windsurfing-I like to play with settings a lot. I also change the oil in my car myself 
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:08 pm Post subject: |
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| adywind wrote: | | I was also experiencing the auto hooking during gybes which made me switch completely to seat harness |
I just raised the boom an inch.
The correct solution, as we all know, is to bend ze knees MUCH more during jibes. If we're looking forward beneath our booms, as instructed, we're not going to hook in.
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 665
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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I set my boom hight differently according the conditions and I bend " ze knees" differently -according the conditions . 
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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scargo
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| ady -- for what it's worth, I enjoyed reading the links on body position. To me, the message (and what you were trying to convey) is that while it may be important to keep a given visual in mind (i.e., the number 7), it can be counterproductive to cling to it at all costs. I've definitely had seshes where drooping a little has felt a little better (overpowered on flat water, if I recall), and the point of those articles is that sometimes it's ok to go with it rather than beating yourself up for not displaying the allegedly perfect form.
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 1158
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | manuel wrote: | | The signs for too short of lines are ... and that I cannot extend my arms fully (this is critical as to minimize arms fatigue and stress). |
... when reaching in straight lines, steady winds, and really flat water. In any conditions I ever encounter, my arms must be flexed enough to let me trim my sail, including everything from a tweak to adjust for wind direction to a 90-degree instantaneous sheeting angle change at the top or bottom of a wave/swell. In addition, straight joints are mechanically weak (i.e., subject to injury from lateral forces) and leave the hands an inch away from being ripped off the booms in a gust or accidental unhooking. My arms are far more comfortable, a LOT safer, and INFINITELY more versatile when flexed 30-40 degrees.
Maybe that's why some pros use harness lines down around 18-22 inches. It's a personal choice. |
I see lots of guys here riding exactly as you describe. They all have an excellent level (expert wave sailors) but when I see I cannot help but think "this guy needs longer lines!"
I try to do most of my sail trimming with my body and not my arms. I don't think it's possible to pull the sail towards you with your arms without losing tension in your lines. The only time I use my arms is to move my body over the board (for a jump, for a swell adjustment, to cross over big waves).
I do hit the swell when it's more onshore with my body when depowered, that's the price to pay. However, I have lots of leverage against the rig, better control, more reactive and more refined trimming, less chance for a catapult.
These guys are my heroes:
For waves, hooking in and out easily slogging is critical. I cannot see how a low harness and short lines would work.
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Nov 17, 2014 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| manuel wrote: | | I try to do most of my sail trimming with my body and not my arms. I don't think it's possible to pull the sail towards you with your arms without losing tension in your lines. |
Correct. But sheeting in or out (e.g., an OTL or bottom turn, respectively, in onshore conditions -- i.e., anything but classic sideshore ocean waves) doesn't involve pulling the sail towards us. As the back hand comes in to oversheet, the front hand extends, leaving the COE at its original distance from our belly button ... our hook. Thus there's no reason to unhook until we need the sail closer or farther away. My sheeting angle ranges from sail-foot-against-my-leg to clew-first-sailing as I slash to and from high upwind to 145-degree direction reversals, all done hooked in. I NEED to unhook only if that 145 turns into 180 and I choose to also jibe the sail; I sometimes CHOOSE to unhook when fully powered running dead downwind plus or minus 20 degrees in swell.
| manuel wrote: | | These guys are my heroes: |
I can see why, but they're not hooked in, so line length is moot until they hook in again and length is again important. The OP isn't quite at your heroes' stage yet.
| manuel wrote: | | For waves, hooking in and out easily slogging is critical. I cannot see how a low harness and short lines would work. |
Low booms. The key factor is where the line loop hangs relative to the hook, and that involves at least half a dozen variables.
SURELY there's nothing new to add to this tangent after our last line length marathon discussion.
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