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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 294
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 8:42 pm Post subject: Old Neil Pryde Sails |
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I have given up on shortboarding and I am planning to go back to longboarding. I had a very good deal on E-Bay for an old Neil Pryde Vitesse 6.5 sail.( $ 50), brand new, still in the package, with the warranty and instructions. Looks very cool! It must be from the 80’s or 90’s! The luff is 470 cm and, surprisingly, it goes with a very wide boom ( 240 cm)
I’d like to rig it on my current mast which is a 460 cm constant curve mast( Gun Sails 55% carbon), but when I tried it inside the luff pocket, it does not bend as easily as with the other newer sails I have. Actually, it is very hard to even start DH manually and there is a deep vertical crease from top to bottom of the sail.
I don’t know if it is because it requires a flextop mast, does it? I’d be surprised, though, because in those days most longboards took stiff aluminum or fiberglas masts and I don’t think that windsurfing knew all the niceties of modern technology .
Perhaps the problem is that I didn’t do the complete rigging as I would do on the beach(we are 20 below here!): I only slid the mast inside, but I didn’t attach the boom because there is no room inside my house.
I’d appreciate your comments.
Thanks
Ittiandro
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pmlct
Joined: 02 Mar 2010 Posts: 68 Location: Middletown CT
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Posted: Thu Feb 26, 2015 10:47 pm Post subject: |
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I am pretty sure that the older sails required outhaul as part of the rigging process so unfortunately I think you need to completely rig the sail in order to assess what it looks like. Its been pretty cold here too.
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merriam
Joined: 28 Apr 2008 Posts: 95
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:12 am Post subject: |
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I think pm is right, the old sails had maybe more outhaul than downhaul. Use to use ampro one piece masts back in the 80's not sure how their stiffness compares with today's masts. Very cool that you're going "retro" sounds like fun. Keep us posted on your adventures.
Tom
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 665
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 11:30 am Post subject: |
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If it's the one in the picture, it looks like the Original Windsurfer sails. Get in touch with some of the fan club guys and ask them:
http://originalwindsurfer.blogspot.com/?m=1
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Sailboarder
Joined: 10 Apr 2011 Posts: 656
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 12:46 pm Post subject: |
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My old NP sail rigs quite well with my 430 CC, and I use close to 30 cm of extension with it. With the old original mast foot, it was IMPOSSIBLE to put a lot of DH. I still have it. It has a short cheap rope that goes once in the bottom tack and then in a plastic clip/cleat.
So if using a modern mast foot, put very little DH tension and do not try to bend the mast from DH.
The sail was meant to have a lot of OH, maybe more than 30 cm, I don't recall exactly, I just pull a lot until it looks ok. You will have a tight leech, a deep pocket and a bent mast from the OH tension. If you have too much DH tension, you will have creases close to the mast sleeve that will not go away with wind pressure. (similar to what you describe)
The sail will have no meaningfull shape until you put a boom on it and pull on the OH.
It's also quite possible that the boom opening will be quite high. It was meant to ease the monkey hanging you had to do before good harnesses were available. In my sail, I had to do another opening lower. It's surprisingly easy to do and didn't cause any problem with my sail. You just need to do 2 scissors cut. You cut perpendicular to the mast sleeve, and halfway into it, from the front towards the back. Each cut separated by the size of opening you want, maybe 20 cm. When you fit the mast in, you just need to put the sleeve material of the new opening behind the mast. If you want to use the old opening instead, you leave the material in front of the mast.
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 294
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 5:23 pm Post subject: |
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This is the sail!
I already e-mailed Original Windsurfer.
Actually, looking at similar old sails on their site, I didn't even see a DH, just a piece of rope around the bottom sail to fix it to the mast! Real ..Flintstone stuff, but was it all that bad, really, if one is willing to forego planing?
Thanks a lot
Ittiandro
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DanWeiss
Joined: 24 Jun 2008 Posts: 2296 Location: Connecticut, USA
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Posted: Fri Feb 27, 2015 10:51 pm Post subject: |
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The older sails like that were designed for use on very soft epoxy masts, yet lacked the luff curve most moderns sails use that then requires a great deal of downhaul tension.
As these old sails aged, the luff stretched quite a bit and often now require more luff tension than every intended. The actual seams between panels also stretched, making these sails very tough to properly shape. The original mast base/extensions rarely provide enough added length or purchase to accommodate the stretched luffs. Pull and pull, you may never get the shape you desire.
Just accept the limited range, set the downhaul with very light tension and tune with the outhaul. You will get a ton of grunt but not much wind range or stability. On the other hand, the grunt of those sails allow smaller sizes used in lighter winds!
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 294
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Posted: Wed Mar 04, 2015 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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DanWeiss wrote: | The older sails like that were designed for use on very soft epoxy masts, yet lacked the luff curve most moderns sails use that then requires a great deal of downhaul tension.
As these old sails aged, the luff stretched quite a bit and often now require more luff tension than every intended. The actual seams between panels also stretched, making these sails very tough to properly shape. The original mast base/extensions rarely provide enough added length or purchase to accommodate the stretched luffs. Pull and pull, you may never get the shape you desire.
Just accept the limited range, set the downhaul with very light tension and tune with the outhaul. You will get a ton of grunt but not much wind range or stability. On the other hand, the grunt of those sails allow smaller sizes used in lighter winds! |
The sail must have never been used, for whatever reasons. May a be a stock leftover..Actually it came in its original package, with the warranty paper and the instructions. It must have been folded up for a longtime, because it still has the original fold marks and when you fold it back it automatically follows those original fold-lines. To me it is brand-new!
This means that perhaps I should'nt be worrying about a deterioration..
Luckily, it does have a luff curve, though, and rather pronounced one.
THe thing that surprised me is its width! It is nominally a 6.5, but it takes 250 cm of boom length !
The"grun"t you are talking about is actually good news, because for its size, I have a feeling that it will give the same good subplaning power I used to enjoy with my 80's longboard, with just a 6.0 sail and which I never had eversince I decided to modernize my equipment and go shortboarding in order to enjoy the " bliss" of planing! If I had to wait for planing conditions here, I'd never take out my board!
At this point, I have nothing to lose and everything to gain, because all those state-of-the art modern sails I have wasted my money on don't get me too far when I have to subplane in light winds. Stability or range don't really concern me at the speed I am going, as long as I can get going!
Thanks for your comments
Ittiandro
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adywind
Joined: 08 Jan 2012 Posts: 665
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ittiandro
Joined: 22 Nov 2009 Posts: 294
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Posted: Thu Mar 05, 2015 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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adywind wrote: | Ittiandro I can feel some bitterness in your words, but you have to understand that at first everybody assumed that your goal is to plane in light wind. Only much later in your treads you made it clear that comfortable cruising is what you are after.
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Yeah, that was my plight, comfortable subplaning in light winds! Not that I am averse to planing! Not at all! I only want to maximize my T.O.W. taking into consideration that most of the time we don't have planing conditions in my area !
I'll post the results of my sail modifications and my new OLD OLD sail !
AS you can see I am a bit of a ..retro . Some say a Flintstone, firmly decided, though, to enjoy my old age until my... last drop, God willing. Unfortunately He does not listen all the time and we get short of drops, but this is another story.
Ittiandro
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