Formula Sails

[beaglebuddy]

I think those 11 and 12M sails are all full racing sails with lots of cambers and battens and are very heavy. They are actually used by racers in much stronger winds than we would use them in, they sail them overpowered.

[isobars]

Don't just presume that more square meters inherently = more planing power. Sometimes, especially in sails designed for racing, the emphasis is on minimizing its top end drag, not maximizing its low end power. Sacrificing low end power for top end speed is fine when planing, but just big and heavy when not planing.

Pryde's first 5.8 race sail came with this instruction: "For use in 5.2 winds". We called them, they said to take it seriously, and they were right; it was a dog when compared with any "normal" 5.8 in 5.8 wind. It was so DANGED flat that it couldn't get out if its own way until "overpowered", i.e., when the other 5.8s were hammered.

That's also just one of many reasons I like to rig "big"; my sails are designed to run a bit flatter than many Gorge-sized sails, thus sacrificing a bit of low end grunt on the altar of top end stability and speed. On a 4.7 that tradeoff is no big deal; at the 10-12 meter end of the scale, that's a big penalty when not heavily powered.

Bottom line: we must consider a sail's intended purpose and our criteria when choosing its size.

[rangerider]

Right, my intention with this sail is to set it up for speed in its wind range. My planing threshold has gotten really low - I can plane really early in little puffs with my 9.5 and the ultrasonic or the 145L x-cite ride, I'm hoping for more consistent planing and a little more speed at the low end of the range. I am super comfortable with my 9.5 set to the low-wind setting - I can't imagine that I would even notice a difference between the 9.5 Ezzy and a 10.5 race sail other than I might plane later but go faster with the race sail - that is why I don't think it worth the bother unless I step up at least to 11M. Have I been slammed by gusts - yes, with every sail I've used, it's gusty here - the 11M would be no different.

[jirvin_4505]

First post -caveat... Still lot to learn only been in the game 3 or so seasons 58yo flat water sailer. Edited post from Seabreese forum

Recent experience with a Raceboard sail to get going in marginal++ conditions.

My mates with 8.5 rigs were planing - they are lighter and much more experienced. I'm only just into rear straps and looking at the water - no white heads on the chop- knew I would struggle to get going with my usual 9.5ezzy lion on the larger JP SLW

Took a gamble and went for the shortboard instead of raceboard but ended up rigging the 9.5 Severne Raceboard sail as it's the most powerful low wind sail I own. Went out on the JP Slw with a 66 fin and Wahoo had a great time powered up with both feet in the straps. Life is great!!!! For the first time I was the fastest on the water.

I had that perfect feeling on the water, in the straps and full stretch out over the water - I could want for nothing more.

Reckon I'll use the big severne more often in marginal++ conditions - it's a real 'tractor'.

I'm thinking now that I've got a setup that can get going in the lightest of breezes. When I first turned up I was regretting packing the shortboard and leaving the Phantom 377 at home - so yes I truly surprised at the fun I was having in such a gentle breeze with a longboard sail.

Cheers Jeff

[beaglebuddy]

Rangerider, these 11 and 12M sails aren't intended for lowering your planing threshold, racers use them in 20 knots or more, they're for going really fast.
Those 9.5 sails are longboard sails, for planing and sub planing.
Look at the Neil Pryde 11M, 9 battens, 5 cambers, 17.8 lbs!
Maui Sails 12M, 9 battens, 5 cambers, 18.3 lbs!
These are for sailing way more overpowered than we will ever be.
For us mortals maybe something like a 10M Speedfreak or if you could find an 11M Retro which is no longer made. These sails weigh around 12 lbs.

[rangerider]

Right, I'm also going for really fast. Not worried about the weight - more fun manhandling a heavy sail that can help me go fast than lifting weights in a gym. Sounds like the big sails are right up my alley, just hoping to get more input from those that have used them. Thanks for the replies

[techno900]

About the big race sails. Yes they are heavy, but when hooked in and nicely powered, they don't seem big. Adjustable outhauls keep them balanced if the wind speeds change a bit. Good formula racers are pointing high and then running deep, and they need the extra size to maintain speed while running deep. The sail needs to be flattened on the upwind and bagged on the downwind for maximum speed and stability.

However, it takes experience and balls to turn an 11.0 sail downwind in 15+ knots. So if one is just free sailing formula gear, it's usually just reaching with a smaller sail compared to what a racer would be using in the same conditions.

It's also unusual to drop the big sails in the water unless you are really overpowered and get slammed.

Tacking and jibing are harder because of the sail size and weight, but it's not all that difficult.

[gvogelsang]

I've been interested in Demon Sails since I saw this:

http://demonsails.co.uk/VG5.html

It looks like it could be tuned for all the low end grunt needed to get a Formula board planing in light wind, and still be tuned to get max speed in windier conditions.

[joethewindsufa]

hey gvogelsang/"birdsong" ...

when u figure out how to get a Demon Sail to N.America, please let us know. I am interested in those sails for longboarding. Heard they are GREAT, but $$$ May have to go for a Severne Raceboard sail in the end ...

thx

[westadamsvets]

rangerider, where do you sail?

Consider getting a 70cm formula fin for the ultrasonic. Although outside the range of rec'd fins, this can be the difference maker for planing in very marginal winds. You can get a used carbon deboichet 70cm very cheap from racers so it's not a costly experiment.

Something to consider is launching in any kind of shorebreak. I have experience with 11.9 and 11.0, and the 11.9 was very difficult to launch/land because the clew would drag in water. OTOH, it was a 2006 north formula so it was pre cutaway and 290 cm boom length.

The 11.9 had a clearly lower planing threshold than the 11.0. It made a significant difference. In puffy conditions it's quite fun to plane through glassy sections.

When I sail big gear I always check the surf forecast to reduce chance of problems in the surf.

I've never tried a sail like a 9.5 ezzy. Only sailed second hand formula stuff bought cheap from racers. However the sails are fine for recreational reaching and it's not true they are only suited for overpowered upwind/downwind sailing by racers.

Slightly underdownhauling the sails tightens up the leech and dramatically improves low end planing.

good luck and have fun