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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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 Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 3:38 am Post subject: |
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Thank you for an honest and thoughtful question LHDR.
No, it is not fanciful to suppose that European countries could 'fall' as regards to their cultures. One of the points about living a long time in a country which one once thought of as having a settled culture. is that one becomes painfully aware of changes, which are often far from being for the better. (The traditions and morality we cherished in the past have changed almost beyond recognition.)
My point has always been that civilized behaviour is only a thin venner, and, as European history has shown (two world wars) democracy can fail very rapidly, if the 'will' of the countries core inhabitants is ignored or disregarded by those in power.
Europe, currently, is facing an unprecedented wave of immigration from countries with more aggressive types of culture (particularly militant religious beliefs) and we could easily, once again, see the rapid rise of extreme politics.
Those who believe peace and brotherly love are a given, or an absolute, are wrong! |
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GURGLETROUSERS
Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2643
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 4:11 am Post subject: |
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If I may add just one further point -
I believe that those of us currently in 'stewardship' of our country, which we hold in trust for future generations, are duty bound to preserve those traditional cultural values which we enjoy, and which our ancestors, over a long history fought and strived to attain.
That moral duty, in my opinion, is not to be put at risk by changes which could undermine and destroy those values. If newcomers integrate, and accept our culture, then welcome. If not, stay out! |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 7:59 am Post subject: |
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mac said: | Quote: | | I repeat, xenophobic and proud. Thus, the popularity of Trump. The Copperheads are reborn. Too many rocks have been turned over, and the slugs are on the march. |
I guess you are referring to the European governments that are shutting the doors on the refugees. Surely you are not talking about some of us here that are just making observations, and commenting on what may be a coming issue (or is an issue) for those that freely offer asylum to those fleeing the turmoil in the east.
Maybe your comments would be more appropriate on some European windsurfing forum where the closed door policies for refugees are actually occurring. Maybe you can convince them of how heartless their actions are perceived. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17748
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Wed Sep 16, 2015 6:43 pm Post subject: |
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Techno, and to some extent LHDR--I am speaking primarily of the rapid rise of Trump, with each xenophobic and demagogic claim about Mexican immigrants and crime--completely false--increasing his popularity. The refugee situation in Eastern Europe is tragic, and the vast number of refugees overwhelms those committed to humanitarian responses, and governments, alike. But I think we need to keep two thoughts in mind.
First, the United States invasion of Iraq has had much to do with the spiraling destabilization in the Middle East. In particular, de-Baathification is one of the factors in the rise of ISIS. Both Neocons in Iraq, and those of us who saw the rise of the Arab Spring were wrong about the ability of either the United States, or the citizens of these states, to move away from autocracy.
Second, the current situation has an eerie parallel in the run-up to World War II.
| Quote: | The systematic persecution of German Jewry began with Adolf Hitler’s rise to power in 1933. Facing economic, social, and political oppression, thousands of German Jews wanted to flee the Third Reich but found few countries willing to accept them. Eventually, under Hitler’s leadership, some 6 million Jews were murdered during World War II.
AMERICAN RESTRICTIONS ON IMMIGRATION
America’s traditional policy of open immigration had ended when Congress enacted restrictive immigration quotas in 1921 and 1924. The quota system allowed only 25,957 Germans to enter the country every year. After the stock market crash of 1929, rising unemployment caused restrictionist sentiment to grow, and President Herbert Hoover ordered vigorous enforcement of visa regulations. The new policy significantly reduced immigration; in 1932 the United States issued only 35,576 immigration visas.
Did You Know?
One War Refugee Board operative, Raoul Wallenberg, technically a Swedish diplomat in Budapest, provided at least 20,000 Jews with Swedish passports and protection.
State Department officials continued their restrictive measures after Franklin D. Roosevelt’s inauguration in March 1933. Although some Americans sincerely believed that the country lacked the resources to accommodate newcomers, the nativism of many others reflected the growing problem of anti-Semitism.
Of course, American anti-Semitism never approached the intensity of Jew-hatred in Nazi Germany, but pollsters found that many Americans looked upon Jews unfavorably. A much more threatening sign was the presence of anti-Semitic leaders and movements on the fringes of American politics, including Father Charles E. Coughlin, the charismatic radio priest, and William Dudley Pelley’s Silver Shirts.
Although the quota walls seemed unassailable, some Americans took steps to alleviate the suffering of German Jews. American Jewish leaders organized a boycott of German goods, hoping that economic pressure might force Hitler to end his anti-Semitic policies, and prominent American Jews, including Louis D. Brandeis, interceded with the Roosevelt administration on the refugees’ behalf. In response, the Roosevelt administration agreed to ease visa regulations, and in 1939, following the Nazi annexation of Austria, State Department officials issued all the visas available under the combined German-Austrian quota.
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http://www.history.com/topics/world-war-ii/american-response-to-the-holocaust
I read about this as a kid in "Ship of Fools" and "Exodus". These are very difficult problems, and not particularly amenable to slogans and 140 character solutions--much less the simplistic demagoguery of Donald Trump. To say that simplistic solutions are nonsense is not to argue for an open border. Instead, I support, as has most of the country, some bi-partisan effort at resolving the current impasse on immigration. To suggest that we can deport 11 million people here without passports, amend the 14th Amendment to eliminate citizenship for those born here, and build an effective border fence along the US-Mexican border is the insane and fevered dream of those smoking opium. |
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