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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 5:11 pm Post subject: |
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dcoombes wrote: | I sailed it on saturday in 25..35 mph and I still had to bear off and push through the front straps like a nutter to get planing :-/
Sigh! |
Take a saucer a few feet in diameter. Stick a fin on some randomly chosen edge and a mastfoot in its center. Try to get it planing.
Exaggeration? Sure. But arguably valid extension of this shortwide craze? Maybe your experience argues "yes". I LIKE being able to tell at a glance which way my boards are pointing; it makes them SAIL better, IMO. |
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009 Posts: 5329 Location: East Bay
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Posted: Wed Nov 18, 2015 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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Why push on the front straps to get planing?
Why not stand in front of the front straps, push there, then as you get planing, you keep bearing off and pumping, and slip into the front straps for more boardspeed?
Notice, get planing first, THEN go into front straps. |
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UncleRandy
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:17 am Post subject: |
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I still think he is under power! Even in 25 to 35 if u pick a board/ sail
To small for your weight. ! |
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UncleRandy
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 7:51 am Post subject: |
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What size sail were u on at 25 to 35
I use a 5.2 at 195 lb |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 9:54 am Post subject: |
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UncleRandy wrote: | I still think he is under power! Even in 25 to 35 if u pick a board/ sail
To small for your weight. ! |
That's my guess, too. I see far too many good to excellent Gorge sailors rigging too small. Sure, they get some rides and get to use lighter rigs, but the price includes a ton of slogging, inability to get upwind except in gusts, a lot of pumping, having to quit or rig up once or even twice, and/or having to quit earlier in the evening. Meanwhile the guys who rig big are having none of that AND are learning new skills by pushing their envelope in the gusts. In winds averaging 25 (I don't look at the gust measurements unless they're insane), I love being on a 5.7 @170#.
Do Randy's and my sail sizes compare to yours, Coombes? |
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UncleRandy
Joined: 18 Sep 2009 Posts: 63
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I i just checked James wind calculator it say's for
240lb wind at 23 u should be on a 7.3 wind 25 -6.6
30 - 5.6 35-4.9 a course board size and sailor skill
Does make a difference i rig a little larger most the time
So if u rig in the middle at 30 u should be on a 5.6 for 25 to 35
Hope this helps. |
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cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 2599 Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
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Posted: Thu Nov 19, 2015 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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While I'm not disagreeing with the rig bigger mentality, Coombes
was happy with his previous boards performance rigged as he would rig.
That probably means a planier board, but his description of his new board
getting bouncy at the wind strength comfortably required
to plane, just sounds like a poor choice for him (and I've had a few boards
just like his description). I used to give them a season, now I give them
about 10 days. If I can't get comfortable with a board by then, it's not
the board for me, and I sell it. I have too little life left to wait for
my abilities to improve to that boards potential.
Still suggesting a custom board, and if I were designing it for him
it would be 100 ltrs 8'7" , 25" at the wide point, centered
forward of the middle in the board length (but not too far forward),
tucked rounded rails to the mast track, tucked progressively sharper
rails from there back, a lot of nose kick, a hint of tail rocker, double
concave bottom (not too deep) from the track back to the tail.
While no speed machine, for a big guy, I believe a board like this
would plane early, eat chop, and ride quiet. Aside for the length
(which is longer than the current crop of production boards), you
might find something in production like this.
I am not a board designer, but I've known a few big guys, and the sport
is different for them, wind in the ranges that they require to ride small
gear is almost always really gusty, and you need some extra
plank factor to stay on a plane, without beating your ankles and knees
while planed up.
.04
-Craig
UncleRandy wrote: | I i just checked James wind calculator it say's for
240lb wind at 23 u should be on a 7.3 wind 25 -6.6
30 - 5.6 35-4.9 a course board size and sailor skill
Does make a difference i rig a little larger most the time
So if u rig in the middle at 30 u should be on a 5.6 for 25 to 35
Hope this helps. |
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manuel
Joined: 08 Oct 2007 Posts: 1158
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 1:54 am Post subject: |
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It'll help if you can give fin specs + board year + sail used.
Any new gear may require some adjustment, sometimes it'll outline a problem and it can be frustrating.
You can have someone else try the board.
As of right now, what are your main issues with the board? _________________ *NEW* - Manu's Windsurfing Blog, The STORE! |
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001 Posts: 1266
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 11:31 am Post subject: |
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Dave, I think you are dealing with quite a number of problems with this board. It seems reasonable to assume that you can replace a board with the same model from the same brand that is 3 years newer, and get something similar. But clearly, that's not the case here. I used the sail the JP FSW boards a lot when renting on vacation, and liked them. But the last time I did (2010), the shape had changed, and I hated the boards. Some brands are quite terrible in this respect - they make pretty drastic changes, but keep the same name for the board. Even brands that are well-known for keeping good shapes unchanged sometimes mess up big time.
With your old board, you had gotten lucky, and found a board that fits your style and conditions well. That allowed you to sail underpowered. The new board is not such a good fit, and probably needs more power from the sail and fin due to design changes. So instead of using a sail much smaller than what James sail size calculator suggests, you'd need one that close to the suggestions (like a 6.6) just to get going. That bigger sail then also requires a bigger fin.
The fin would be the next issue. Going from a 5.8 to a 6.6 would require a fin that's about 5 cm longer. Using James' calculator again, and assuming you are a heavy-footed (simply because you weigh more than the average guy), we get a 42 cm fin length.
All that explains the problems you have to get going, and the spinout problems once you plane. The harsh ride, once you get going, is a different story. Changes in the board shape will be one factor. Not being dialed in, and not being able to push the fin because it would spin out, are additional factors. On my 110 l FS board, I find that I can freeride it fine in 25 mph and chop if, and only if, I have a big fin that I can really push. Once I get my weight fully into the harness and onto the fin, the ride gets a lot smoother.
So, to get your new board going in the 18..26 mph wind you mentioned, you'd need to use a bigger rig and a bigger/better fin (as others have mentioned). In addition, you will probably have to adjust your technique to get the board going. Shorter & wider requires a bit different technique. Once you figured it out, it's no big deal.
But even if you do all this, it's quite possible that you still find the new board disappointing compared to your old board. Just dropping $2K on another new board is a gamble - even if 9 out of 10 guys like the other board, you may just be the 10th guy. If you can get used boards, you can reduce the risk a bit - chances that you can resell them with minimal loss are much better. In the SF Bay area, you may be able to find some.
Your best bet is to try before you buy. You have a few shops in your area, so give them a call. At least one of them states on their web site that they "demo equipment at all of our locations". Or consider a windsurf vacation with gear rental next spring. The Gorge is close to you, but the conditions may be too different. WorldWinds in Corpus Christi has excellent rentals, and is definitely worth a trip. In Hatteras, Wind-NC lets you rent the same boards that they sell in the shop; Ocean Air also has a good rental fleet. Staying there is cheap if you share a house with other windsurfers. Of course, you could also consider the spots in the Caribbean, but Tobago and Bonaire may not be so good for you - Tobago often has marginal wind (I needed 6.x most days @ 195 lb), and Bonaire can be a bit shallow, also making it better for lighter sailors. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
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Posted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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Picking up what boardsurfr has suggested about demoing different boards, you might want to coordinate with Boardsports at Coyote Point. Demoing local in the conditions you normally sail in is undoubtedly the optimum way to go. They offer a number of different brands to choose from, so a bit time and patience just might get you want you want. |
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