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Flat bottom vs double concave hulls
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2834

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 2:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
So am I (the head trainer in my big gym told me I work harder than anyone else in there). But ittiandro is grossly misinformed.

Perhaps he is, but you have got to love the irony. Here you are quoting experts to Ittiandro and telling him his method doesn't work yet he is refuting your advice because his workout method is working for him. Can't you see how ironic it is for you to take that stance with Ittiandro? Or maybe it's hypocritical? Either way it is quite entertaining.

Coachg
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1093
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 7:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

^ +1 ^
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19530

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 1:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
Here you are quoting experts to Ittiandro and telling him his method doesn't work yet he is refuting your advice because his workout method is working for him.

He completely misunderstands how the body's entire aerobic/anaerobic adaptation process works and what his workout is and is not doing for and against him. The only reason I care is that other readers might buy into his outdated science, his exercise strategy and tactics, and his fitness criteria, under the impression that they are valid.

Do you advise your athletes to stay in their comfort zones when working out -- to deliberately avoid hard work as ittiandro says he does under the aerobics/cardio mantra -- or do you push their envelopes (the only way) to make them stronger and fitter? Do you measure their fitness by how quickly their pulse rate reaches their comfort zone, or by how quickly it recovers from its maximum/sprint peak* (the real test of fitness)? Do you have your football players jog and chat pleasantly for miles, or have them run wind sprints (intervals) until they swear there's no more oxygen in the stadium? Do you avoid strength building exercise in your jocks despite its contribution to every aspect of sports and life including power, flexibility, speed, endurance, health, attitude, injury prevention, longevity, recovery, and more?

* Our maximum pulse rate is determined by experimentation ... not a chart, most certainly not 220 minus our age, and not even the more modern equation. It is highly individual. Just as the “calories expended” display on elliptical machines overstate our exercise-induced calorie output by several hundred percent, their fat-burning zone charts are based on LONG-disproved notions of imaginary benefits in that zone coupled with the invalid assumption that max heart rates are calculable by age.

ittiandro also completely misrepresented what I said, especially about doctors. I don’t understand what whacko/denier/misfit doctors he's talking about.

BTW, Slinky ... save your criticism about topic drift for whomever injected fitness into the thread. Let’s see … oh, there it is: it was ittiandro. Followed by certified instructor Greg. Then Greg again, then ittiandro again, back and forth with ittiandro bringing up and focusing on “cardio”. Then Techno joined in. Finally I offered some proven facts about cardio, after which ittiandro discussed his fitness program and objectives at length … three times. I submit that he not only introduced but encouraged the thread’s expansion to fitness, so it’s not your or my call to say whether it’s appropriate in HIS thread whose stated topic had already been beaten to death.

We don’t need to be as fit as a top jock, but it sure helps, especially if we like to play hard. I took a university weightlifting course in which the instructor told me my sustained leg/cycle ergometer speed and power output easily exceeded that of his varsity football players. I was in my mid 30s, and had never been near a gym since high school phys ed. I DID, however, race dirt bikes 10-20 hours a week.

Of course cardio is better than couch surfing in the short term, but taken seriously it is counterproductive and in the long term is often harmful. In particular, ittiandro’s slower heartbeat for a given resistance does not involve his heart or lungs significantly; if anything it diminishes his heart’s pumping surge capacity by avoiding high output demands upon it. What has improved … and only slightly at that pace … is the chemical efficiency and effectiveness of the furnaces in our bodies that convert fuel into energy. Those furnaces are our mitochondria, and they are inside every muscle cell we have. That’s why “cardiovascular fitness” is localized in the skeletal muscle cells being trained -- even if it’s just the mitochondria in our right bicep -- not in our heart and lungs. It’s also why his WSing fitness improves rapidly those first few sessions each summer; he's stressing, thus enhancing, the mitochondria inside the muscles he uses for windsurfing.

If those furnaces were operating better, he’d probably stay warmer in that toasty 20C water and air.

ittiandro, it sounds like you have a solid understanding of physics, and that you applied some of that thirst for knowledge to the now outdated aerobics fitness model … the Bohr model of exercise physiology, one might say. You and I were taught the Bohr model in school, and were exposed to the aerobics/cardio model in midlife. Both models have not only inadequate but even wrong assumptions about what is really going on, and it’s up to us to choose for ourselves whether to stop learning at those stages or to move on and benefit from their successors.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2721

PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

sheesh
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