View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001 Posts: 5467 Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
|
Posted: Thu Mar 17, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
|
|
Key cocker:
It's obvious the intend of water rat pat the OP WAS to bring some attention to the product.
It's not obvious what your post is to do.
It is obvious that a custom designed and built board is not for all, and you make a point that $ wise customs are near or under some.
What I take exception to is ...
Because a board was once a custom under development, is now a production board and therefore a custom ....
The development board is what I would call a prototype .
Which then goes in mass production.
Certainly the allure of a board that is different to others, built to your specs, and hopefully with great care to obtain maximum .. Strength VS weigh and performance ..that's a custom _________________ K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
jam-1
Joined: 23 Mar 1999 Posts: 81 Location: Redwood City
|
Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I've had some pretty good experiences with both customs and production boards. As others have alluded to, there is something fun about getting something made especially for your riding style, conditions, etc. Clearly, you put a lot of trust in the shaper to translate those words into a shape that works for you. It can be a little hit and miss, especially if you ask for something pretty radical. My experience is that shapers tend to err on the side of tried and true anyways.
By the time a shape goes into production, the manufacturer feels pretty darn confident the shape works. Maybe not bleeding edge new, like what you might see on the beaches on Maui, but not too far off. I also like the warranty of a production board as well. _________________ James Van
Van Surfsports
www.vansurfsports.com
http://www.facebook.com/vansurfsports |
|
Back to top |
|
|
keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
|
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 3:29 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I shaped a few customs and sold Thommen production boards in my shop for twenty years.
I stood at the water and shaped the things I liked into a board for a custom for myself and the site.
Then I made a larger one just the same ,thinking it would be my new board line made at Cobra.
Then I made a slalom I didnt like and tossed it. I made two more custom wave boards with features I liked and a smaller one for my wife.
Tell me which boards were customs and which ones were prototypes? The design and construction process is exactly the same.
First the label "proto " was on my red custom, them after a month, I moved it to another custom.....
When I approached Peter for a custom ,he pulled a new custom board out of his truck and let me sail it for a few days.
When I returned it, I thought it didn't point as well as I liked so he handed me another custom made board with the straps further forward and sharp rails going more forward. I couldn't see the difference, but it sailed the way I liked. I tried a third seemingly identical custom board, it didn't turn as well on the bottom for me. I bought the second hand made custom, light and strong.
It had been shaped for a generic sailor my size and fairly advanced, designed for conditions at my site Uppers at Kanaha.
If you order a custom ,you won't get the chance to try three variations of minor details on custom boards made for a sailor just like you like I did so you may not get a custom that fits you perfectly like I have.
All three of those boards were intended to be prototypes for his production line.
Last edited by keycocker on Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:06 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
|
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
A shaper has a great board in his mind with all his best ideas already included.
It turns great and works in as many conditions as possible.
It can be bigger for larger sailors by adding a few liters.
When you order a board, do you think you will get a different board that does not include all the shapers best ideas? Something entirely different ?
You want a board that works at your site, but also at other sites you sail, as many as possible.
You want it to turn great . You say you are an aggressive sailor, but his clients may include guys like Polakow who make you look like a timid sailor.
Aggressive is a relative thing.
You say you sail often, but the shaper lives in Maui and many of his clients sail 200 days a year on 4.0 to 4.5.
Sail often is a relative thing.
You tell him you sail big waves a lot, mast high several times a year.
The rest of his clients sail in double mast high several times a year .
He is likely to give you a board very much like his ideal board in his mind, with the volume adjusted to your weight.
It is the board you are asking for. If enough folks like it, it may go in production, with some other customs larger and smaller in the lineup, which he adjusted to fit someone else.
I have a custom Thommen built for a woman who understands shape and has had a series of boards built to suit here. It is very short and has all the volume forward so you have to lean hard forward to turn the thing.
She does. She kept having that feature in each custom, and learned it was important by having a series of boards made by Peter, just like a pro. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001 Posts: 5467 Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
|
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
The design process IS the same for a custom and prototype.
The process to turn the prototype into a custom is not the same as turn into a production board.
A custom will have the footstrap inserts where I want them.. The list of those design features goes on..on
A production board will be the prototype that was tested over 1and more like 1.5 to 2 years before its model year. A custom or small factory can change or incorporate changes without waiting .. At all.
Some companies like the small cottage custom boards so much, they purchase its design, OR, have them make the board that they want.
All customs are not created equal, some aren't even customs _________________ K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993 Posts: 10588
|
Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2016 8:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Custom or production, a lot can be said about whether you want to keep it forever, and the thrill never goes away. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
cgoudie1
Joined: 10 Apr 2006 Posts: 2597 Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove
|
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 12:23 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm not sure I understand what the disagreements here are about. If it's
the definition of "custom" who really cares as long as you like your board.
I had a board shaped to my specs, loved it, I rode it until it
was heal dented into oblivion (about 7 seasons). I looked for a replacement
"production" board of similar ilk for a few years, and I tried several
different major vendors. Those production boards (designed for standard persons
in standard venues) were OK, but they just weren't quite as good as my
custom. Then I got a ride on Brian Hinde's proto Demo board(Open Ocean). It worked
exactly like I wanted, and after the season was over, I bought that very
board from him. Is that a custom board? I'd say so. Was it designed to
my express specs, nope, but I couldn't have done a better job if I'd
designed the thing my self, in fact, it's actually a little better at Gorge
conditions than my previous custom. No surprise there, since Brian has
been building and shaping boards for Gorge conditions for decades, and
knows more about planform than I ever could.
I've ridden a few Thommens. Custom or not, he makes a pretty
easy riding board. If that's what the OP is after, I don't think he'll be
disappointed, as long as he specs what type of venue and riding he does.
-Craig
Last edited by cgoudie1 on Sun Mar 20, 2016 6:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001 Posts: 5467 Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
|
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
It's a discussion, not a disagreement, like the Hatfields and MCCoys.
Key
Most of your discussion centers on Maui built boards and to highest end of the elite sailors. No I don't want a board like that to sail I want one that works for me.
I have a Maui built custom, new last year, it's from a little known shaper. We talked and wrote back and forth, he determined that a Gorge platform was the ticket, for my sailing venues. It was extremely cost effective to make, hard to say on strength but equal, argue able to Cobra built products, much lighter, to my exact size in liters length width. I left the bottom shape to him, and placement of the fins, 3, we settled on toein amount . Because it's rather small I don't get a lot of time on it, it did not disappointment in any manner.
I HAD, for 3/4 months a Maui built custom , by a very well known firm.
It did nothing better than the boards I had, it was fragile. It's gone.
My Witchcraft is a custom of sorts, it's made in a small Euro factory, with personal touches, placement, and additional reinforcement in areas. They are worldwide known as one of if not the best constructed strength wise that money can buy, my friend liked it so much he ordered 2.
So my custom experience includes 2 additional boards, so 5 total, the one by the best known shaper worked worse.
I'm happy with the prices and the products , hitting home runs 4 of 5 _________________ K4 fins
4Boards....May the fours be with you
http://www.k4fins.com/fins.html
http://4boards.co.uk/ |
|
Back to top |
|
|
keycocker
Joined: 10 Jul 2005 Posts: 3598
|
Posted: Sun Mar 20, 2016 3:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I would like to think that our boards and sails were tested for years before they reach production.
In real life the majority of our gear sizes started life as a computer file and were never tested or even built, before they hit the market.
They may have built some of the sizes and gave them to a tester, but every size board sails different. Those testers will not have the right wind on the right day to test all the small number of boards that even get built, whether in Maui or Corpus.
If a change is needed, there is often no time to draw it, build the new board ,and test it before the deadline at Cobra each year.
A sail or board is designed ,hand made locally in one or two sizes, sailed, tossed out, and maybe there is time to build one more and test it this year or maybe not. This is the process for producing three board lines with five sizes each in a single year, then doing the same with something "better" the next year.
Those fifteen boards do not get tested for one to two years, if they are ever even built before production. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum You can attach files in this forum You can download files in this forum
|
|
|