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Board repair needed?
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theconverted



Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 16
Location: Boston Area

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 4:02 pm    Post subject: Board repair needed? Reply with quote

I recently noticed this separation on an early 90's Mistral Equipe of mine. Is this something that I should be worried about water getting into, or is it just decorative overlay?


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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4603
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Jun 15, 2016 5:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Looks like you split the bottom sheet from some soft impact and water will get under the white skin to spread, and delaminate it from the yellow bonding material very soon, maybe after then next usage.
You gotta cut away any separated white bottom sheet, and glue it back on with epoxy resin and some pressure, like weighted sandbags or rocks atop wooden supports to spread the load.
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theconverted



Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 16
Location: Boston Area

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 6:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's what I figured. Now I guess I have to go find some epoxy based resin. Any good places to get it from?
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5069
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's damaged. If you don't repair it it will self destruct. Possible already started.

I DONT know the construction on this board, typical for current boads is use A marine 2 stage epoxy, along with fiberglass, carbon, or both. West Systems 105 is a good epoxy, available at West Marine. Possible if the skin is plastic like to use this ..
http://westsystemcom1.site.mobi/app/gflex-epoxy/4965513/36/

boardlady.com

Is a great site for materials and repair advise.


Hopefully someone will come along and advise what material the board is, as ASA or newer .

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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an old Equipe and have dealt with the same problem. That's the ASA top sheet. You will not get water into the laminate below unless that's damaged too. However, it will likely continue to delaminate unless you fix it. I would definitely not cut it away unless the material underneath is damaged and you need to get to that to fix it. But first, see if you can bend that little curled lip on the edge so it's flat and the edge is relatively flat and straight. If you don't the little curl will either stick up and you can sand it down, or, worse case, when you clamp it the curl will be below the bottom level and look ugly.

(Way too much instruction follows, but I feel your pain in your cool old board needing first aid.)

All you have to do is glue it back down. You do not need glass or carbon fiber fabric, just glue. Epoxy is the right glue, not super glue, unless you're an expert with superglue, like Tinho Dornellas.

Anyway, the hardest part of the job will be to clamp it properly so the repair doesn't end up as a bubble, or a divot. But it may be easy if it's on a relatively flat part of the board. Be sure there is no debris under the plastic, nothing that will prevent it from laying right back down smoothly. Spend a bunch of time figuring out how to set up with a gentle and uniform (gentle and uniform!) flat clamp. I would suggest some compliant material over the ASA, like a piece of hard rubber. Then a smooth piece of 1/8" Masonite or a similar (1/8"-1/4") piece of plastic like Plexiglas. It might be fine with just the Masonite. Over that something taller, like a thick piece of semi-rigid foam, maybe 3"-4" or more thick, like styrofoam. Then use several board straps to clamp the whole thing together down to the board. You need the taller foam to get some pressure perpendicular to the surface as a result of the straps. Look carefully and see if you have any gaps or bumps between your clamp and the skin. Keep trying different set ups until you get the clamping right and uniform. Get this perfect. It's the most essential part of the job.

Read all that clamping info again and spend a bunch of time getting it just right. If your board comes out lumpy it's because your clamping wasn't good. Then you'll have to cut or sand it away and fix it. (sigh)

Onward -

Tape everything off with masking tape so all of your spills and overflow can be removed. I use a double set. The outer set I fold over the very ends so I can pull them off easily when it's all first gooey and wet with the epoxy I spilled or over-gooped. Then the first set of tape is relatively clean and I can pull off much later when the job is done.

Then find some epoxy system that's relatively fluid, like the West System. Get something that gives you at least 30 minutes (preferably a bunch more) working time. Working time means time you could still pour it from a 8 oz cup. I'd go for 60 minutes if you can find it. Measure it by volume or weight, whatever's suggested, accurately. (Accurately!)

Mix it for at least 2-3 minutes in a cup that's plastic or all paper. Not a wax-coated cup! Use a tongue depressor stick which you have sanded the tip of so it's squarish and will fit the bottom corner of the cup. As you mix, scrape the sides of the cup, and scrape the stick on the lip, then continue mixing until the 2-3 minutes is up. Now pour it into another cup, mix it again for another 2 minutes minimum. Scrape your mixing stick in between or use another new mixing stick. Pretty finicky instructions, but biggest error I see with epoxy is not measuring accurately and not mixing thoroughly.

The last trick will be to get it into the gap uniformly. Use another tongue depressor if it will reach the bottom, or use a thin artist's brush, or you can pour it in very carefully and uniformly (risky). Now apply the clamps and be sure the bottom is flat when clamped. Now put your board upside down, like in your pictures, I think) so the bottom is up and pretty level. If the clamp is good, you'll have some epoxy running out of the edge. Do not apply heat. Do not put into the sun. Just be patient for the day or so it takes to cure.

Good luck.


Last edited by dmilovich on Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:59 pm; edited 2 times in total
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5069
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ASA then.

I would use the WestSystems product I posted the link for. Follow the mixing instructions, exactly.

I agree no glass or carbon

I would lay out the epoxy mix on the board, cover with plastic, like a heavier bag from a store purchase, most times are white, shower curtain like.

To weight down , I would use similar to a cat litter bag, perhaps with weight on top, until it cures.

Be certain it's dry to start.

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theconverted



Joined: 25 Jun 2015
Posts: 16
Location: Boston Area

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like that answer even better. Does anyone know how the ASA responds to heat? I'm thinking it might be possible to warm it up and see if it contracts a little bit.

I'm quite familiar with working with fiberglass, just used to race car applications but haven't worked with epoxy based before. I'll head over to West Marine and see what they have for me.

Guess I'll have to leave the Equipe home and take the Lightning out this weekend.
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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, a weighted bag can work, but won't guarantee flatness, hence the suggestion about a thin panel over the repair area. You could do both so the panel gets you the flat contour. But bag needs to be heavier than cat litter in my opinion. Clamping is much better in terms of guaranteeing contour.

I would not try heating the ASA, nope. When you heat a thermoplastic the first thing it does generally is expand, just the opposite of what you want. Just stick with mechanical pressure to push it back into place. From your photos it looks like it would go back down. If for some reason it doesn't, then you'll likely have to slit it somewhere and or take out a sliver to get it to lay down.

Big difference between epoxy and polyester resin, which is likely what you worked with before, is that polyester is catalyzed, so even if you mess up the catalyst ratio it will likely cure OK. Epoxies use resin and a "curing agent", which is not a catalyst, that must be mixed in a certain ratio to make the chemistry come out correctly. Mess up the ratio, either by not measuring quantities correctly, or by not mixing thoroughly, and you get uncured stickiness with no strength.

You have a Lightning and an Equipe. Nice longboard quiver!
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4603
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The reason its necessary to cut out the lose delamed bottom sheet is that you need to dry it out really well, and add the bonding epoxy to 100% of the delamed area.
If you try to just peel it back and squirt epoxy into the area, it will not settle into the last inch or so, causing an air bubble that will delam the bottom sheet again as soon as the board cools in the water, then get's warmed by the sun when out of the water.
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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Thu Jun 16, 2016 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not happened in my experience. But then again, I was pretty careful to do it right the first time. Letting it dry well is good advice, but I didn't find cutting it back was necessary to dry it. And getting the epoxy into the whole area was also not difficult. Generally, brushing it generously over the area will put more epoxy there than one needs. The careful clamping pushes the excess back out of the edge.

I'd try for the approach of not cutting away the ASA skin first, in order to try to retain the original look of this classic board. If for some reason you didn't get it right and you get a bubble later, it will be much smaller and you can deal with that then quite easily. I also think that cutting a piece away and creating new edges in the middle of your bottom could create some other problems. Cutting it away also makes more work for you and makes the repair harder to do right.

Guess it also depends on how much you care about the look. I'm a bit of an old longboard romantic, so probably too over the top in that respect.
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