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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ALL sails are good, there are no bad ones on the market.
Some are made for early planning, are light, but probably not great for overpowered sailing.
Other's are made for sailing overpowered, like slalom race sails, where you need to use a 7 meter sail in winds of 17-30 mph, are heavy and stiff, for experienced racer's.
Speed is within 1-2 mph of each other, the first category needing to be around 5.2 meters in sizing compared to the slalom sails 7 meters.
Obviously, the smaller sail is easier to jibe, uphaul, waterstart, and maintain.
The bigger ones can be faster because they power thru the lulls without getting overpowered in the higher winds, and can block the wind of other sailors.
Fewer battens is usually lighter in weight, and has more low end power.
More battens with the addition of cams is heavier, and can be sailed in more wind.
Pick your poison, it all ends up working about the same, given equal sailing skills and somewhat equal equipment.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 3:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Soft sails Reply with quote

ittiandro wrote:
I am considering a deal on a HSM Superfreak 8.0 of an older generation.
On the bag, it bears the description " Soft crossover". What does SOFT mean?


Thanks

Ittiandro


Soft means when the wind powers up the sail the feel is more gradual as opposed to being "direct". Superfreaks are the softest sails available and the ultralight version is even softer. The dacron is stretchy, even the window is stretchy as it's made of urethane so as the sail fills with air and stretches the feel of the power comes on gently or softly. Other modern sails basically have no stretch at all so the power is instant.
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ittiandro



Joined: 22 Nov 2009
Posts: 294

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 7:20 pm    Post subject: Re: Soft sails Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:


Soft means when the wind powers up the sail the feel is more gradual as opposed to being "direct". Superfreaks are the softest sails available and the ultralight version is even softer. The dacron is stretchy, even the window is stretchy as it's made of urethane so as the sail fills with air and stretches the feel of the power comes on gently or softly. Other modern sails basically have no stretch at all so the power is instant.


Thank you
There is no better way to find out what is the " soft" feel than trying the sail, which means in ..6 months, giving the winter here.
Until then, I am just curious to know what is the disadvantage of having the "instant" power of the wind on the sail instead of a more gradual effect, like on a soft sail.

Is the soft sail easier to handle because of this? Less risk of being overpowered or catapulted forward, ultimately falling?

Another question I'd like to ask regarding the Superfreak is about its alleged advantage of quick depowering. Usually a sail is depowered by sheeting out, which is already very quick, but what is the advantage of this special " quick" depowering of the Superfreak? It is mentioned inthe HSM Superfreak rigging video.


Thanks

Ittiandro
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Outside of being a sail body built mostly of Dacron, there are two design features that the Superfreak has that gives it its qualities. Most important is the fact that incorporates an overall skeletal structure made of non-stretch material ( I think that it's Kevlar) that controls its shape under power and lessens the unwanted stretch that Dacron is known for as it ages. However, Dacron is still stretchier than monofilm or X-ply material, and that makes it a bit softer, and quieter in the power transitions. Also, the 3/4 battens allows the the sail to easily luff or depower when turned out of the wind. This works well in wavesailing when a powered up sail isn't always a good thing.

To really learn more about the special features and qualities of the Superfreak, I would recommend going to the Hot Sails Maui website and forum.
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beaglebuddy



Joined: 10 Feb 2012
Posts: 1120

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes I think easier to sail and some people feel it's easier on the joints as the jolt when suddenly powered up is more gradual.
As for depowering, the Superfreak rigs completely flat, no shape or belly so when you luff up the sail into the wind there is a very narrow profile. Compare that to an Ezzy or a cambered sail which always has some shape or belly. I would say this is a feature that advanced sailors could use mainly in the surf.
For it's size a Superfreak is not an especially powerful sail, others using conventional modern sails could probably get away with 1/2M or more less sail in similar conditions. It's extremely durable, sunlight will not break it down. Remember it only has 5 battens so on an 8 or 9M sail it won't be the most stable in stronger winds. They can be rigged with little downhaul for max power, outhaul is usually fairly neutral compared to other sails that take a lot of OH like an Ezzy. You can rig the 8M on a 460 or 490 which is best.
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dhmark



Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Posts: 376

PostPosted: Sat Dec 03, 2016 10:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a 6.3 Superfreak that I sailed for 10 years and liked it a lot. It stayed in fantastic condition and I sold it used to somebody who knows the sails for well over 100 dollars. I have a 7.0 that I haven't had for a long time and haven't sailed that much, but I think the advantages of the sail diminish somewhat in the larger sizes. The sail definitely has less power for its size than other sails, so if you are going to use a sail with the bulk of an 8.0 I'd think you'd want all the power. The soft feeling that absorbs gusts when the 6.3 is used in gusts over 25 knots also inhibits early planing when those same gusts would get you past the shorebreak. I'd want my 8.0 to be as powerful a sail as possible. I have been using Ezzy Zephyr 7.5 as my largest sail, a reasonable powerful sail but the long boom is a pain. What looks good to me in an 8.0 is Hot GPX, nice short boom, rigs on a 460, as light as Zephyr.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Dec 04, 2016 10:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

beaglebuddy wrote:
Yes I think easier to sail and some people feel it's easier on the joints as the jolt when suddenly powered up is more gradual..

Nevermind that this thread is almost as old as I am ...

As a kid in my 50s and 60s, I liked the instant power of a sail with aramid (kevlar) everywhere. It means quicker acceleration in the gusts ... mandatory for racers who want to win, for example. But as my tendons got older, those sudden jolts of power became less fun and much more risky. Too many middle-aged experts with unforgiving sails began injuring shoulders, for example, when hit by power-doubling gusts mid-maneuver. I, for example, had an elbow shoved through my ribs, injuring both for months (I'm sure my torso armor prevented broken ribs and I had to pad my elbow the rest of the season).

Ennuff of that. I began experimenting with a number of materials options with each new quiver, and have been very happy (and safer) with dacron leech panels on all my sails (my biggest is a 6.2, so there's not a camber in the lot) and with PVC/plastic windows on my 3.2 and 3.7. Their slight stretch (compared to monofilm and kevlar) converts the abrupt, "square-wave" leading edges of many gusts into softer hits ... sort of like padding the bumpers of passing trucks before going out to play in freeway traffic. This doesn't slow the trucks (or sails) down, per se; it just spreads the hit over a second where it used to feel like fragments of a second. I can clearly feel those (very small; bigger windows would feel like rubber bands) PVC windows absorbing the leading edges of the gusts for much improved comfort and safety. Similarly, my dacron leeches stretch a bit compared to monofilm or kevlar, so my sails don't need to be rigged floppy in order to twist properly. They have very little trailing edge flop when lying on the ground, yet remain stable, controllable, fast, and forgiving when, for example yesterday, I was getting by just fine with my 5.7 when 4.2s and one 3.7 were the proper sail for all of us in wind averaging 30 mph. HELL, yes, I'd rather have been on a 4.7 or 4.2, but
1) the 5.7 was rigged,
2) my maneuvering was not hampered,
3) the wind was likely to shut down on short notice,
4) the water temp was not conducive to a long swim OR the ensuing long walk in the water,
5) I was enjoying deep, fully powered downwind riffs and tons of power for getting way back upwind in one reach on my wave board, and
6) I got to sail well after the dying wind sent everyone else limping ashore.
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gvogelsang



Joined: 09 Nov 1988
Posts: 435

PostPosted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 8:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhmark wrote:
I had a 6.3 Superfreak that I sailed for 10 years and liked it a lot. It stayed in fantastic condition and I sold it used to somebody who knows the sails for well over 100 dollars. I have a 7.0 that I haven't had for a long time and haven't sailed that much, but I think the advantages of the sail diminish somewhat in the larger sizes. The sail definitely has less power for its size than other sails, so if you are going to use a sail with the bulk of an 8.0 I'd think you'd want all the power. The soft feeling that absorbs gusts when the 6.3 is used in gusts over 25 knots also inhibits early planing when those same gusts would get you past the shorebreak. I'd want my 8.0 to be as powerful a sail as possible. I have been using Ezzy Zephyr 7.5 as my largest sail, a reasonable powerful sail but the long boom is a pain. What looks good to me in an 8.0 is Hot GPX, nice short boom, rigs on a 460, as light as Zephyr.


I have an Ezzy Zephyr, and this summer I purchased a Cheetah 8.0. It also rigs on a 460 mast, and has the same power as the Zephyr, maybe a bit more. It also feels a bit lighter in the hands, since the boom is shorter. I am very happy with the Cheetah.
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