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grantmac017
Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 946
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 Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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Implying that a formula board handles like an off road dump truck shows a whole pile of personal bias.
A formula (or raceboard) is like a sportbike and the wave board like a dirtbike. Both fun on the right terrain and miserable on the wrong stuff.
The Carve he's got is kind of a dualsport, it's does a bit of everything but nothing perfectly and there is nothing wrong with that.
However in Vancouver, in the summer, when you can't just ditch work and you want some TOW then you can't be picky about fitting the conditions to your favorite gear.
When I sailed Vancouver last I was having a whole lot MORE fun on my raceboard than all the guys slogging their freeride gear. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 8:39 pm Post subject: |
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| grantmac017 wrote: | | Implying that a formula board handles like an off road dump truck shows a whole pile of personal bias. |
I made no such implication at all. I simply picked two opposite extremes of vehicles to illustrate your and Combs' points that what matters is what the buyer wants it to do and the designer's intent. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Just started reading this. Earlier, Iso said: | Quote: | | IIRC, the consensus of this forum in past Formula discussions was that Formula boards don't plane any earlier for a given sail size. And, Mamero, don't overlook the fact that Formula boards aren't for beam reaching; they all but require pointing very high or very low. |
I have had three formula boards, all for racing. Now that I don't race anymore, I still sail my Starboard 160 formula with sails from 7.5 to 9.2 (don't use my 11.0 anymore.
Now I sail the board for light wind fun and they sail on beam reaches like any other board. I only run deep when I choose, same with upwind, but I do use upwind to keep in control in the bigger gusts. Certainly, racing formula is up wind down wind racing, which necessitates larger than normal sails to keep powered, especially on the downwind runs. With the correct sail size, they reach perfectly well and can be relatively fast in light winds. In a 10 knot wind, they can be close to or achieve 20 knots of board speed.
With their 100 cm width, light weight and 70cm fin, they will pump up on plane faster than ANY other board given equal sail sizes, in my opinion.
I should add that they jibe just fine, but the turning radius with speed is quite large. Snap jibes are pretty easy at slow speeds given the stability. |
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boardsurfr
Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1266
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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| grantmac017 wrote: | | When I sailed Vancouver last I was having a whole lot MORE fun on my raceboard than all the guys slogging their freeride gear. |
Very similar on Cape Cod in the recent weeks. The last three days at Kalmus, there were mostly longboards on the water. The only exception was a local 100 lb lady who can plane in 12 mph on a 6.3. Even she was there only one of the 3 days. Meanwhile, 3 or 4 guys and gals on race boards / longboards were having tons of fun all 3 days. |
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NOVAAN
Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1549
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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The newer "freemove" or wide freeride boards are amazing in lite to moderate winds. Very easy to sail and forgiving for the progressing sailor.
Might be easier to turn and they require less skill to get the most fun out of the conditions and intended wind range. |
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dllee
Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5329
Location: East Bay
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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Formula boards weigh around 20 lbs., no straps nor fins. Some, like Slabs, can be a little bit lighter in weight.
With 9+ meter sails, Formula does plane up sooner than most boards.
With sub 7 meter sails, a lightweight slalom board planes up a bit sooner. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | [Formula boards] sail on beam reaches like any other board ... they will pump up on plane faster than ANY other board given equal sail sizes, in my opinion. |
Sounds like you should give the rest of these guys some lessons in beam reaching and early planing. |
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techno900
Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 4161
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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iso said: | Quote: | | Sounds like you should give the rest of these guys some lessons in beam reaching and early planing. |
I don't think anyone here that has experience with formula boards will contradict what I said.
However, zirtaeb did say: | Quote: | | With sub 7 meter sails, a lightweight slalom board planes up a bit sooner. |
The differences are subtle so there are no hard and fast rules. I suspect that zirtaeb may be able to pump a 7m sail and 150l slalom board on plane in 8 knots, but he is a highly experienced light weight (it won't happen with a 180 lb. intermediate sailor). This discussion is about a novice/intermediate? sailor wanting to plane in the lightest of winds.
I think early planing depends on the weight and skill of the sailors as well as the rig. The PWA pros I believe have an 8knot minimum for their slalom racing and they are on big slalom boards and big sails (not sure of the sail sizes in the light winds, probably in the 10.0 range). I also don't know how they use the 8 knot minimum rule. I suspect that the 8knots is the low point of the wind range at the time of the race. With an 8knot average, they will likely slog some.
I have been sailing Starboard Formula boards since they came out with the 175 in 2001, so I have pretty good knowledge about what they can and cannot do.
With all of that said, if my formula board dies sometime soon, I would likely replace it with a large freeride or large slalom board, one that can carry a 9.2 sail with ease. I would sacrifice a little in early planing, but would gain in ride and control. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| techno900 wrote: | | I don't think anyone here that has experience with formula boards will contradict what I said. |
It's already been done in past and current threads on the topic.
I won't ever buy a Formula board -- that's just not my kind of sailing -- so I don't personally care about their pros and cons. But Mamero should at least be aware of the differences of opinion before spending thousands on Formula kit. |
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grantmac017
Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 946
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| Posted: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: | | techno900 wrote: | | I don't think anyone here that has experience with formula boards will contradict what I said. |
It's already been done in past and current threads on the topic.
I won't ever buy a Formula board -- that's just not my kind of sailing -- so I don't personally care about their pros and cons. But Mamero should at least be aware of the differences of opinion before spending thousands on Formula kit. |
You'd also never leave the beach where he sails. |
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