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Solution to getting booties and wetsuits off Da Feet
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 4432

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

joethewindsufa wrote:
you mean - you're supposed to take it off for that ??
Anyone who has done a lot of diving will know the expression "There are those who pee in their wetsuits, and those who lie about it!". I'm confident that doesn't apply to you GT. Nearly 80 years old and going out on a frigid North Sea in a 7mm wetsuit with 8mm on your feet! You are a man of steel! I hope you plan to donate your body to science!
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2125

PostPosted: Thu Oct 26, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Gybe, I've read too much Edgar Allen Poe (and almost believed it when a teen) to risk not being incinerated, and my ashes scattered in said North Sea.

But I'm sure you will agree that wetsuit material and design has advanced enormously over the earlier years. It's sometimes difficult to convince non sea users that when fully kitted up in Winter gear (only face exposed) it isn't necessary to feel cold while working hard. It just feels a little uncomfortable in strong sub zero winds. (Not the water, but the wind chill.)

The only problem I see in future years is the possibility of falling to pneumonia, owing to fading with age resistance. And that is one of the downsides of being fitter than normal for the older age group. You simply may not realise the increasing strain on that dwindling with old age resistance.

However, we can't just stop doing as we've always done, so it's a chance that must be taken. It's pointless worrying. My parents both used to worry (or perhaps just wonder) how the end for them would be? That was when they were in their later 80's. It fact, it turned out like nothing they had imagined. My father suffered later with a brain malfuction, and was barely aware of what was happening when he died at 95. My mother, despite her undoubted intelligence and drive in her late 80's, fell to dementia. She too had more or less lost awareness by then.

One consolation of getting old that I have now found is a determination to make every day count. Just today I was windsurfing in a flat sea with a light iffy breeze, and apart from just a couple of planing bursts, it was all just slogging. (slalom 133 and 7.0) But it didn't matter over much. I wasn't wasting the day!

That, is now the main driving motivation.
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ctuna



Joined: 27 Jun 1995
Posts: 742
Location: Santa Cruz Ca

PostPosted: Mon Oct 30, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Getting out is not near as hard as getting in.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2125

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 2:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly ctuna.

With modern tight fitting across the chest short front zips, and attached hoods to have to lever over your head before zipping up you don't need to do stretches or warm ups. Hoiking the board and rig, as it snatches in the wind, down an extensive low tide beach is plenty enough build up, before leaping into the sea all full of expectation, and, hopefully, action.

The kiters have it easy. They can weightlessly loft their way down the beach at twice our speed. Some of them look as though they need an anchor!

But we all enjoy it, putting on a show for the shivering watchers don't we? (Makes us feel a bit special, wouldn't you say??) Razz
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18339

PostPosted: Tue Oct 31, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
With modern tight fitting across the chest short front zips, and attached hoods

I wouldn't touch either of those with my 10-foot pole. I like my drysuits loose (where else would I stow my 10-foot pole) and my neck free to swivel unimpeded, and I've never met a neck-entry suit I'd pay $51 for (I literally tore my Ion steamer off my torso after 5 minutes of trying to get it off as intended. Heat and I do not get along.)

Fortunately it cost me only $50 new (Thank you, Second Wind Hood River.)
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2125

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 3:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some over here have tried drysuits for cold winter windsurfing, but, as with ordinary board surfers, they found the looser fit didn't feel right in surfing.

There is no doubt that a drysuit with proper fleece undersuit is warmer than a wetsuit, and safer for prolonged immersion in icy water, but for energetic windsurfing they could be prone to damage from board or rig in surf wipeouts. The sudden influx of icy cold water and no insulation, could be dangerous if there is far to swim back in.

The problem with so called extreme winter wetsuits, as asold and advertised by the ready made manufacturers is twofold. They are not thick enough for extreme use (sometimes not even as thick as claimed), and the neoprene used in them is of the lower density more flexible type, which can easily develop compressed cold spots in the strain areas.

I always had my winter wetsuits made to measure by a diving suit business (but NOT diving suit design, but to my own windsurfing spec.) out of genuine Yamamoto +50 grade 7 mm diving suit neoprene which is of high density, and doesn't compress under pressure. (As used by North Sea divers.) Unfortunately, that route is lost since the lady diver who worked there, and fitted my suit into the system, is now ill, and retired.

I now keep the last suit she made (8 years old) just for the coldest sessions and have bought an expensive readymade C skins 6 mm (genuine thickness) short front zip and hood attached for ordinary winter use. It really is virtually dry inside, and very nice, though I wear a Damart vest and 3 mm shorty (no arms or lower legs) beneath it, along with full 4 mm gloves and double boots. (If feet get cold, it spreads to legs, then to groin, and so on.)

For winter safety, and the probability of having a long swim back in after a surf mishap, there is no substitute for thickness if you wish to make it without the onset of hypothermia. It is not comfort while on the board which counts, but safety if dumped in the water! (Been there and done that in earlier days - and ended up in hospital. Never again!)
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18339

PostPosted: Wed Nov 01, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two dry suits ... one Goretex and one 5mm high-grade neoprene. I can wear anything from fleece to a 3mm shorty to a tuxedo under both of them.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2125

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 2:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All winter survival techniques stress the critical importance of heat loss from an uncovered head, especially where immersion in icy water is concerned. I do not understand your reference to neck swivel being impeded by a snug fitting neoprene hood. It doesn't tally with my experience. Are you really saying that you windsurf in surf, in sub zero winds, without a helmet?

I started all year round all winter sea use (surfing and kayaking) in 1971, and have been doing so continually (including windsurfing since 1982) ever since. During that time we have experienced some very severe cold conditions. I made a special seat in my camper van with holes in it, and a small paraffin heater strung beneath. After one bitter snow storm two hour surfing session in 1979, the cold was really felt, and I glued my backside to that seat and burnt it! Problem was, each time I hopped up off it, I was shivering, so promptly sat back down again.

Thankfully, those days have gone. Some specialist wet suit makers, with experience of cold water surfing, now make decently protective suits of adequate thickness, with proper hoods attached. What we once endured when young (with fancy but not adequate wet suit gear) is a lot different to what we are able to endure when older. Experience is the master in what really works when conditions are severe! (Not hype, and silly bells and whistles.)
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 18339

PostPosted: Thu Nov 02, 2017 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GURGLETROUSERS wrote:
I do not understand your reference to neck swivel being impeded by a snug fitting neoprene hood. It doesn't tally with my experience. Are you really saying that you windsurf in surf, in sub zero winds, without a helmet?

Not saying that. AM saying that the attached hoods you mentioned impede neck swiveling. I like my hood and/or helmet unattached from my suit for greater freedom of motion.

I also gave up sailing in freezing conditions long ago. Dirt bikes, snowmobiles, snowboards skis at 30 below? Bring 'em on! Water sports anywhere near freezing temps? The ratio of fun to hassle and risk just didn't justify it. I hate booties, will not wear gloves for WSing, and the pain of warming hands is both pathologically harmful and more intense than that of passing kidney stones. Water below 50 F/ 10 C gives my feet hives that itch far worse than poison oak/ivy night and day for weeks. The reaction can be fatal in extreme cases.
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2125

PostPosted: Fri Nov 03, 2017 2:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You must have a unique neck my friend! Wink Hoods are standard wear with winter surfers, as are gloves and boots. Hands and feet do NOT suffer if properly protected. (After 48 years of continual winter surfing/sailing I have no health issues other than slight arthritis in swollen finger joints which is probably more a sympton of age and over rigorous use, not immersion in cold water.)

The key point in windsurfing wearing 4 mm neoprene gloves is to have them a firm but not too tight a fit over palms and fingers. (To avoid slip inside them while gripping the boom.) Muscles quickly adapt to their use after the first few tries. The obvious with boots is simply to open up the straps!

As for whether winter extreme cold sea use is worth it - depends on how strong your passion is! If the call is there, how can we resist provided we are properly and fully protected? And in an age when men can walk about on the moon, shouldn't we demand warm and comfortable wet suit gear?

In my experience, that is now what we have. The sheer numbers of winter sea users (over here) bears that out. (And does NOT preclude other non water based pursuits in addition.)
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