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Light Wind Neil Pryde F4 foiling
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2529

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've sailed at many lakes and none of them had wind as consistent as 10-20 or 8-12. More likely to be 8-22+ on a good day or 2-12 on a normal day. Shifty or not, 8-12 would be a treat.

Coachg
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 729
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah... true.

The wind is almost always going up and down... lakes (and most any place) can have constant wide variations with gusts and lulls.
But there can also be lake sessions with less variation (love those Smile

It's always a "salad" when we go sailing... with different flavors in each bite, and variable wind with each reach Smile

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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 945
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 1:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Light Wind Neil Pryde F4 foiling Reply with quote

CoreAS wrote:
Lightest wind I think I have ever foiled in! my pumping technique is getting better, that's for sure Smile A year ago I would never of even contemplated going out in less than 15 mph.. stoked!

Wind 8-12 mph (and shifty)
Water temp 40 degF (cold for Dallas, Texas)
I'm 195 lbs on a NP 7.7 V8 and NP F4 Foil
Board - 225 x 79 @ 122 liters

https://youtu.be/UmwxsHnFYsE


Great vid, the drone shots show how you're pumping both the sail AND the foil to get going. Nice! It's pretty amazing how easy it is to keep going with just apparent wind and "apparent water" over the foil. Connecting the gusts and flying through the lulls is another great and fun challenge with foiling! Similar to the people on surf foils pumping back out after a wave and catching one after another... until their legs give out!

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CoreAS



Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Posts: 37
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Greg,

Still much testing and equipment tweaking to have a definite answer on the one thats foils up the quickest but from my experience so far..

The guys on the Horue foils and Horue board have an distinct edge with the wind minimum. I have seen Bruce & Bob foil up in very low winds!

For myself - The Naish Thrust has a small advantage as its low aspect BUT I am not convinced about the 70 cm mast length for heavier guys? I would love to try the Thrust with a 90 cm. Another reason, I am using the deep tuttle adapter and cannot adjust the foil forward (judging by the Naish foil board there is an advantage to having the front wing more under your feet for early foiling).

The NP F4 is not far behind and I am waiting for the JP 135 pro board to come in. My hope is the extra volume in the tail area will make up the difference and give me increased "Pop"?? we shall see.

The NP aluminum is I think the most user friendly foil and has great wind range overall I need around 12mph to get it going though. The mast length and width gives you great confidence.

When the water temp warms up a bit, I will definitely gets some more runs on the Horue foil and we also have a local with the slingshot foil...exciting testing ahead Smile

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CoreAS



Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Posts: 37
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 30, 2018 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Coach - yep lake sailing can be a real workout thats for sure!

Wind NC - Thank you much appreciated, your right involving the legs will help foil up...who needs the gym!
One of the shots not in the video I pump the rig like 20+ times and my heart is pumping through the wetsuit...I now have great respect for the olympic sailors thats for sure. Connecting through the puffs is awesome, its surreal to fly along with zero rig pressure in winds that you would normally be standing around in.

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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dean, great video and thread. I am impressed you got going in that light wind.

Greg, I have used the NP Aluminum and now the Naish Thrust WS. I have friends on the F4 so I know a little bit about it from them.

My feeling is the NP Aluminum needs a bit more board speed to take off than the Thrust. Some of that could have been skill set as I started with the NP Aluminum and some could be the way I had the back wing trimmed in the neutral position.

The Naish takes off with very little speed when the rear wing is trimmed for maximum lift. This means it excels at riding swells with no sail power, even small ones, as not much speed is needed to keep it up.

I think the F4 is closer to the behavior of the NP Aluminum, and Dean shows it can also go in light winds once you get the right speed.

I have heard the F4 is faster and harder to learn on than the NP Aluminum, and the F4 can be a challenge in really high gusty winds from what I was told.

I find the 70 cm mast height on the Naish to be about right. It goes up and down in a very controlled way, so because of that I found the 70 cm mast was still plenty to prevent foil outs. I like the mast height because it means if I rise up on a swell I do not go quite as high because of the shorter mast. The swell already gives you the feeling of being higher.

The surfing foils all have shorter mast heights because of this and I have used the Go Foil Maliko which is made for surfing swells and has a shorter mast height, so I became used to a shorter mast.

If someone is choosing between those models I would say it depends on what you want to do.

If you want something really easy, can catch some swells, and are not looking to be the fastest at your spot the Naish is a nice choice.

If a fast top speed is desired the F4 is definitely known for that.

If you plan in foiling in really high gusty winds, the Naish's ability to glide with the sail almost totally flagged out and just grabbing little bit of power makes it easier. The F4 likes to have the sail locked in from what I heard and in the higher wind gusts that can be a handful.

They told me at the Naish store that some are putting the Naish Kite foil front wing on and Wind foiling with it and as it is much smaller they are able to go faster. It is easy to change front wings so that is an option for those who want it. I am satisfied with my Naish top end speed so not sure I would change the wing to get that extra boost.

As you know, like Dean I am all in when it comes to wind foiling.
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CoreAS



Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Posts: 37
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great review Bryn,

I think as you posted this I was just getting off the water after a solid afternoon on the Naish Thrust and guess what! I think I have figured it out now and your comments hit the nail on the head.

I use a RRD standard slalom board and it works very well with both the NP aluminum and F4, its flat rocker = fast to get the foil engaged.

Antoine Albeau uses RRD slalom boards (albeit newer of course) and F4 foil (I didn't even think of that until last night) we are of similar build - think he is slightly heavier though. When I foil the F4 its close to a traditional stance (not so much back leg though!) I lean further back off the rig and really drive through the foil, and it works very well...

However the Naish Thrust is nothing like that!
The light bulb went off yesterday as I hit a juicy gust and I was flying but felt something was off, the foil was breaching and I just didn't have control...I was getting that short mast issue again Sad

Check out the back foot pics using the 2 different foils..
I took my back foot out the strap and positioned it more in the middle of the board and it was like it was a completely different foil..so smooth and controllable through the bigger gusts...I was having an absolute blast going off the wind and back up wind and little chop wave turns. Now look at the foot strap positions on the Naish 122 Hover board - almost in the middle of the board.

That's exactly where the Thrust needs to be foiled from with a more upright stance - not an lean out, back foot on the rail like the F4!

Think my JP will be in next week, and I think I will add footstrap positions to the RRD (more in-board)...then maybe I'll add 2 x US boxes so I can move the Thrust fore & aft? I'm going to do some measurements this weekend and see where the straps are on foil dedicated boards etc.

Lots to think about and tweaking to be done Smile Smile



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brynkaufman2



Joined: 10 Sep 2002
Posts: 335
Location: Kailua Oahu

PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great point Dean. You found the sweet spot for the Naish foil!

When I go down wind with the swells my back foot is always in the middle of the board and I never use the harness.

I find it so much easier to control everything this way. Without the harness it is easy to flag out the sail completely, and I can just give little pulls as needed to keep the power going in between the swells.

I use the harness to catch the initial gust, then pop right out every time.

Having my foot in the middle allows me to turn downwind and back up wind on the swell.

I do use the foot straps when going up wind as it gives me a better upwind angle and I also use the harness then too. I would prefer both the front and rear straps to be more towards the center but they are workable for me for upwind riding.

Going upwind I have no swell pushing me, and I am pushing against the swells, so I need constant power from the sail, so the harness does take some of the load then.
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CoreAS



Joined: 23 Oct 2015
Posts: 37
Location: Dallas, TX

PostPosted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://youtu.be/qGHKMaIukLg

Bryn - too funny! your comments line up exactly had I foiled it Smile

Back foot in straps upwind, down wind - move foot over middle of board, drop out of harness line and use sail draft to trim foil.

It gives you more of a surfy, carve feeling in the chop and swell lines...Now I'm ready for some real down winders in real swell..Ha!

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