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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coachg wrote:
grantmac017 wrote:
Need, no. Prefer in sails above 7m, definitely.


Yup. And that applies to foiling as well.

Coachg


Why do you say that?
I'd say there can be some big differences, between windsurfing and windfoiling.

The sailor's stance can be different.
There can be way less pressure on the sail in foiling, cause there's less water drag, as we go through space.
You can move the sail differently to keep a wing flying, compared to the simpler movements, just sailing through or "on" the water.

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gregnw44 wrote:

Why do you say that?

Because I do not need cams or large sails to windfoil in light winds if I am not racing, just like regular windsurfing. There is a "time & place" for cams & the fact that I have 7 of them means the "time & place" is not lost on me. I'm not opposed to cams for foiling, but they are a preference, not a necessity.

Coachg
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed.

But if you are windfoiling in very light wind (5-10 knots, 7-12 mph) and your only goal is to get up on the wing for some short flights... and you are fit and can pump like an Olympic Champ... the board and the foil are the same...

... could you get up on the wing more easily, and or, more often, with a light / tighter leech / 7m cam sail... or a 7m RAF sail ???

Note - I'm not promoting any particular gear here... and I'm not the "fit, super pumper"... just your opinion on a theoretical question.

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That theoretical question is along the lines of which is worth more, $10 or $10.02 ? The answer is obvious but can I really buy that much more with $0.02 ?

But it is a moot question because why would I want a bigger, heavier 7 m cam sail when I can get going in the same wind with a much lighter 5.7m camless sail that rigs on a 400 mast with only 4 cm extension? And even if I do gain 0.125 mph planing advantage in wind speed the trade is not worth the extra weight.

Again, cam sails are great but they are not required. There are places where cam sails will make a huge difference in performance but light wind foiling is not one of them.

Coachg
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 436

PostPosted: Tue May 01, 2018 11:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think one person's "light wind" is another's rare "excellent conditions". Because for me foiling with an RAF 5.7m is definitely not "light wind" and Greg has less average wind than I do.
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gregnw44



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 742
Location: Seattle, Wa

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 12:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd like to see a regular person get up flying on the wing in the light wind, that I defined above, 5-10 knots... with a RAF 5.7m sail. Not Robby, cause I'm sure he could. But a regular guy... on flat water, no waves to help.

Cause in wind fluctuating from a low of 5 knots and no higher gusts than 10 knots... I could get up on the wing with - a very light, 90's all monofilm 8.8m 3 cam race sail. This sail weighs about the same as a 6.5 RAF sail from 2012... but has WAY more power. And in the brief gusts to 10, I can pump onto the wing for short flights... but when the gust passes, I slowly drop back down to the water with my 200 lb self.

In those same conditions with a RAF 5.7 I would not get even close, to take off speed !!
And a 7m Race sail wouldn't do it either.
But the 8.8 Race can do it.

Anyway, THIS has been "my experience". Time will tell as we gather more info from around the world. And we'll have more finite info in a year or two.

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skyking1231



Joined: 10 Jul 2000
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 6:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

no one needs cam sails...

but sailing the other day on my 7.8 in winds in excess of 20kts... i needed all the stabiliy i could get. btw isonic 117 is fast...and more importantly...fun
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKI-8yTx7Kw

Iím not Robby Naish & Iím not sailing in waves. In 5-10 knts I too need the 10 knts to pump up on the foil. I probably spend 40% of the time on the foil & the other 60% doing light wind freestyle waiting for the next gust.

I weight 30 lbs. less than you. I believe you are using a Starboard Go so add more weight. You are in Seattle wearing a full wetsuit & Iím in northern CA wearing a shorty for the last two months. Cha ching, more weight. The mast for your 8.8 is probably 490 which weighs much more than my 400. Three cams plus how many battens while I have no cams & three battens so add more weight & my 5.7 weighs less than a 6.5 RAF. So can we say you are trying to fly 45-50 more lbs. than I am?

Coachg
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 3814
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed May 02, 2018 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cracks me up on other forums with guys using 8 meter race sails, 85 cm boards, and lite wind foils, in 15-18 KNOTS winds, extolling the ability of foils to work really well.
One of my old sailing buds weighed 275 lbs, and would be flying around in those winds with a NP Warp 6.3 and 133 Seatrend 9'5" at 60cm width, easily staying with Torkil Christensen and blowing past Bernd Shumacher (who had EIGHT complete rigs set to go] and half the 1988 World Cup slalom sailors. I was caught needing a sail between Race Foils 5.0 and 5.7.
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skyking1231



Joined: 10 Jul 2000
Posts: 214

PostPosted: Thu May 10, 2018 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

just an update.... i had to put a med size shim on the top camber. bottome three still have zero.

when rigged...the top cam was maybe a 1/16 inch (1.5mm for you metric nuts),

with good rotation.
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