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light wind foil, long or short BOARD in swell?

 
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jamieinnyc



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Wed May 09, 2018 8:38 pm    Post subject: light wind foil, long or short BOARD in swell? Reply with quote

Foiled last year in Martinique on 140lt board, pumped onto foil in 10 knots, exhausting but great - but footstraps in light wind seemed to be in the way, and in the wrong spots for most efficient foiling. Want to foil at home - in the ocean, south shore LI. Could only be in 8-12knots, more and swell/shore break means no (and have kite for getting through that when necessary). So, do I use the available JP Super Light Wind (with deep tuttle!), or something else. I ask because the wide boards do not seem to like to be pumped onto a plane in the ocean swells - longboards do way better there in my experience. I have an old Mistral Equipe missing a daggerboard - maybe add a deep tuttle box in the right spot (way forward of the fin box, possibly have to remove the dagger board trunk, have eEquipes to test to figure out back foot spot)? The Equipes do great in the ocean (have others).

I was thinking about the Slingshot Flyer 380, and the idea of pumping/gliding onto the foil. Was going to try to find the right race SUP to modify, but have the Equipe. Feels right for the ocean to me. Is there any reason why this would not work? Evidence?
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 955
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fun question. In my opinion, the Equipe will be too narrow for you to have control over the foil and it will just roll out from underneath you.

The Flyer is 28" wide and it keeps that width all the way back through the tail (which looks more like a slalom windsurf board than a race SUP). That width is pretty important if you're going to be sailing your foil, as your feet are almost always way out on the rail, pushing down on that windward wing, when you're flying.

You might also consider a board like the Naish Hover SUP 122, if you have interest in windsurfing and SUPing and windfoiling and sup foiling out in the waves/open ocean (or flat water with wind power).

Or the SeaLion Wings models are pretty sweet as well...


As far as getting flying goes, if you're using the wind for the most part, and you have frequent gusts over 10 knots, it probably doesn't really matter which board you choose. On narrower and longer boards, you *might* be able to get away with a smaller sail, especially if you pair them up with a surfy high lift slow speed foil. Your Super Light Wind would be great as well, but you'll probably need a larger sail to get it up and over the hump to that magic speed.

If you're hoping to rely a bit more on the swell to get flying, then you should probably consider one of the other boards over your Super Light Wind. Something with a bit more length and narrower outline will most likely accelerate a bit easier with a slopey wave behind it.

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jamieinnyc



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 9:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the width - in the way for gliding onto the foil, but then potentially important for gaining leverage over the foil. But you point out that the Flyer 380 is 28" wide - so is the Equipe. The width into the tail is perhaps less important on a foil, I think - going to be standing way forward of the tail. If the Flyer 380 works, I believe an Equipe would work, but am unsure if if it would work better. I am biased toward long and narrow boards because I sail in a light-wind spot, and am putting that bias on display here. Most of the windsurfing world is biased toward short and wide boards - I don't know if that bias is why foiling boards are shorter/wider.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 531

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Local guy bought a Flyer380, not advantage for early take off compared to his 80cm board and worse when flying. Can't leverage a large sail so limited use in light wind.
My experience has a 74cm board being close to minimum unless you never need more than a 5.0, with a 7.4 it's all I can do to get the windward rail down.
I started with a Formula and had the opposite problem.
Getting a set of inboard front strap inserts installed on your SLW would be ideal.
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jamieinnyc



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

grantmac017 wrote:
Local guy bought a Flyer380, not advantage for early take off compared to his 80cm board and worse when flying. Can't leverage a large sail so limited use in light wind.
My experience has a 74cm board being close to minimum unless you never need more than a 5.0, with a 7.4 it's all I can do to get the windward rail down.
I started with a Formula and had the opposite problem.
Getting a set of inboard front strap inserts installed on your SLW would be ideal.


This is precisely the info I needed, thanks - had heard no feedback about the Flyer 380, so didn't know of advantages/disadvantages. Interesting that you mention inboard footstraps - I was on old formula board for first/only foiling to date, and I found that my back foot wanted to be pretty close to right on top of the finbox, not in the strap. MY front foot was ok in the strap, which was outboard. But again, this was 90min of experience one time - more to come.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 531

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Strap position depends mostly on sail size and type of foil. Usually back straps aren't used until you have the basics well mastered.
Us ordinary mortals might never use them.
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I started with small custom formula 225x93 cm,
Had to add onboard position for foot straps, both back and front.
Back way onboard. My current one, Tillo custom
206x86cm. Short narrow noise helps with aerodynamics, and reduces swing weight, making flight feel like you have no board under you.short/wide board allows to leverage,control and pump foil easier and more efficient. On board foot straps are easier, while on rails allow for better upwind racing.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2609

PostPosted: Sun Jun 03, 2018 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You did not say which foil you planned on getting. Foils along the F4 line require wide boards & utilize larger sails as you hike out and leverage down on the windward rail since they are more race oriented. If you use your JP Superlight then that is the type of foil you should probably get. Since you are also thinking of mounting your foil on an Equipe you might want to consider the Naish Thrust. The Thrust is designed to be optimized on narrower boards & utilize smaller sails. The two Naish foil boards are only 74 & 73 cm wide.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23L9k2HTHzg

You will notice that Robby is only using a 4.7 sail in that video & in that same wind I would need a 5.7 but as I get better my sail size should get smaller.
If you do utilize the Equipe please post back here as I have a buddy who is considering doing the same thing with an old Mistral longboard. I would be very curious to see how it works.

Coachg
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SergioKapul



Joined: 04 Apr 2014
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Mon Jun 04, 2018 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Naish set up is unique, with short front wing span and similar narrow board, aimend at freeride, rest of foils on the market higher aspect, longer front wings span. You need wider tail to comfortably control those.at least in theory, higher aspect gives you more speed, more wind range, more angle of attack
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