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Let's Talk Cammed Sails
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1047

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 9:41 am    Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Cammed Sails Reply with quote

mamero wrote:


I'm personally curious about a few things in particular:
1. What sail size is best? My biggest sail now is a 7.5 Sailworks Retro. I'm thinking something like an 7.8 - 8.6 might be good?
2. Are there any differences water starting a cammed sail?
3. Gybing. I'm still learning my carve gybes. A cammed sail is always powered (unless I'm incorrect). How does that affect the gybe transition when a camless sail would usually de-power at down wind? ...or tacks for that matter?



1. If you keep the 7.5 get an 8.6, if not ... get an 8.6. Cam sails hare way more stable when overpowered and you might as well exploit that to the max
2. Not until the sail pocket fills with water. Stay away from a race sail. Get a 2 or 3 cams with a narrower cam pocket.
3. The more race oriented the sail the harder the gybing will be. Again get a 2-3 cams freerace sail. Loft Switchblade, North S-Type, Neil Pryde V8.
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many cams is the Sailworks NX? Is the NX a Freerace or full-on Race sail?

Should I simply be looking at a larger Retro for my quiver?

edit. I don't want to go TOO big. There is a point of diminishing return.


Last edited by mamero on Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:32 pm; edited 2 times in total
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

akrausz wrote:
you might want to first try an earlier planing board with your 7.5 Retro rigged full.


My 2016 114 Futura Freerace board planes up pretty early. Much quicker than my Starboard Carve it replaced.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 502

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 4:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

1. As a relatively weak swimmer, I find tight sleeved camber induced sails much easier to water start than no cam sails. Punch the cams up with my fist, and the water drains right off, and the sail starts generating lift.

2. Some posts referred to 'having to use 2 more square meters'. I felt more like you could handle 2 more square meters.

3. Very nice in lulls. Holds shape.

4. Simple to rig, but ONLY if you read and follow the instructions.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 817

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:
1. As a relatively weak swimmer, I find tight sleeved camber induced sails much easier to water start than no cam sails. Punch the cams up with my fist, and the water drains right off, and the sail starts generating lift.

2. Some posts referred to 'having to use 2 more square meters'. I felt more like you could handle 2 more square meters.

3. Very nice in lulls. Holds shape.

4. Simple to rig, but ONLY if you read and follow the instructions.


Bingo!

NX is their full race sail, but it's not as deep luff as others. Also quite durable without being appreciably heavier than a Retro.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9470

PostPosted: Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A comparison between the 8.6 NX versus 8.5 Retro yields similar stats.

8.6 NX - 7 battens and 5.8kg. 513cm luff, 221cm max. boom, 24cm ext. $815 2017/18

8.5 Retro - 7 battens and 5.0kg. 509cm luff, 225cm max. boom, 20cm ext. $549 2017 (2018 sold out)

490cm masts

100% carbon Lightstick @ 1.9kg.- $839

75% carbon Joystick @ 2.2kg.- $509


Given the price difference between the NX and the Retro, the Retro definitely offers a significant savings. Just remember that you need the 490 mast too. If you elect to buy an NX, I would highly recommend the Lightstick, because no reason to buy a race sail without the light premium mast to go with it.
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great info so far. Thanks.

So... based on the discussion so far I can conclude that a 7.8 NX (or any cammed sail) would be pointless as my next (and biggest) sail above a 7.5 Retro. Correct? Sailworks makes a 7.8, 8.6, and 9.6 in the NX. The 9.6 is overkill for me. If the 7.8 is out that narrows it down then doesn't it. The next questions is 8.6 NX or 8.5 Retro? Swchandler, thank you for chiming in abit on that. Sailworks makes an 8.0 Retro but that probably be too close in size to the 7.5, agreed?
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konajoe wrote:
1. As a relatively weak swimmer, I find tight sleeved camber induced sails much easier to water start than no cam sails. Punch the cams up with my fist, and the water drains right off, and the sail starts generating lift.

I too am not a strong swimmer. Bigger sails can be a handful in the water cammed or not (not to mention uphauling). At 140lbs even a 7.5 Retro is like an 8.5 or 9.0 for some of you. I like the idea that a cammed sail generates lift quicker or more when water starting. It makes sense anyway.

konajoe wrote:

3. Very nice in lulls. Holds shape.

That is the main curiosity I have with cammed sails. For my weight with the 7.5 camless Retro I need around 12-13 knots to plane steady (without frequently dropping out of plane in lulls). At 11-12 knots I can just get on to plane but often will drop off again a few seconds later. At- 11-12 I spend my session saying "Come on! Just one or two more knots!". I am wondering if a cammed sail would turn those types of sessions in to "consistent planers".
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2255
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd go with an 8.5 Retro. Those sails have killer low end, and are
pretty pumpable. Then again, I think cams are the devil. ;*)

-Craig

p.s. 8.0 is definitely too close to your 7.5, but a wider board with a longer
fin wouldn't hurt to use with an 8.5 Retro, and if you really really only need
1more knot wind speed to keep you planning, just a bigger surface area fin
might do the trick. It's a lot cheaper than dedicated light wind gear.

p.p.s. The biggest sail I have in the Gorge is a 6.7 (board ~100 ltrs), and I haven't rigged that sail yet this year.

mamero wrote:
Great info so far. Thanks.

So... based on the discussion so far I can conclude that a 7.8 NX (or any cammed sail) would be pointless as my next (and biggest) sail above a 7.5 Retro. Correct? Sailworks makes a 7.8, 8.6, and 9.6 in the NX. The 9.6 is overkill for me. If the 7.8 is out that narrows it down then doesn't it. The next questions is 8.6 NX or 8.5 Retro? Swchandler, thank you for chiming in abit on that. Sailworks makes an 8.0 Retro but that probably be too close in size to the 7.5, agreed?
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Ugly_Bird



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 245

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2018 3:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Let's Talk Cammed Sails Reply with quote

mamero wrote:
Let's talk about Cammed Sails.

Open for discussion...


I like my 6.6 Ezzy Infinity and 7.6 Naish Indy sails. Both cammed. They are great for lake windsurfing. No problems with waterstarting. To me, the biggest disadvantage of cammed sails are the cams themselves. They get worn out and they also break. Ezzy makes cams and cam pockets easily replaceable. But Naish cams are not so easy and the cam stopper replacement is real PITA. Those stoppers are not designed well and crack easily.

Andrei.
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