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Sail Rigging.....
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3308

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 4:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

yup, i tend to not rig bigger or down as often, and use sail tuning and mast choices to minimize the frustrations others around me seem to go thru.

i have learned that using less tensions with down haul does NOT provide as much low end power advantages to overcome the heavy, and unstable feelings from doing so once planing.

when trying to get the most out of one's largest sail: boom height, fin choice, board choice and out haul help overcome lighter wind barriers to early planing.

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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19255

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
i have learned that using less tensions with down haul does NOT provide as much low end power advantages to overcome the heavy, and unstable feelings from doing so once planing.

100% agree, over decades and countless sail styles, brands, and models. Each sail seems to have some minimum DH tension below which it feels more like a heavy/leaden sheet of plywood rather than a responsive foil. Adding DH tension really helps handling towards the upper limits of its wind range, but the logical opposite just doesn't pay off. Thus my DH tuning range has two limits: enough to prevent that heavy feel (what the mfr might call "medium" DH) but not enough that the leech flutters when heavily powered in the gusts. I then fine tune the power by tweaking my OH.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4592
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suspect there are 2 sides to this theory.
I see very good freestyle sailors using much smaller sails than even advanced freeriders, and the former on smaller sails with fully tight leeches. See Andy Brandt...before foils.
Their boards do account for some of it, but being comfy and able to perform, they can use up to 2 meters smaller sails with similar body weights. Make it 3 meters when compared to similar sized slalom racers.
In 15-21 mph winds, slalom racers on 7.5, freerider on 5.5 - 6, freestylers on 4.4-5 meter sails.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3308

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 2:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

free style folks only care about planing part of the time. shoot, they probably want their tiny stuff to deliver top heavy punch vs anything else.

yes, smaller sails are less likely to feel wonky when not tuned right in some scenarios. yet, one day at a local launch captonian was complaining about that very thing concerning his 4.2 pryde. we were wave sailing. i tuned it, he came back and said it was much more enjoyable. how ironic is that?

it all depends on what one wants. i am typically very unhappy when slogging on a short board. seen plenty of free style types that don't mind it. to say, broadly, that tight leeches are good for everyone is unfounded.

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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4592
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not every sailor cannot figure out how much power is needed. Some sailors actually adjust their out/down/self technique to changing wind and waters.
Some sailors can actually adapt to different sail and board types, hard to believe.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19255

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've seen expert to pro level freestylers doin' their thang on Starboard Gos using 3.x sails in breezes under 5 mph. They're not going to plane anyway, so why throw around a big sail? I've also seen expert aerial freestylers launch into 20-30 mph winds deliberately rigged to slog most of the time. Their stated objective is to plane once per reach, even if that means slogging 80% of the time. It's a choice, and I guess it serves some purpose.

The Hucker was designed first and foremost to be run with a tight leech to boost Dale Cook even higher, at the expense of being more work to sail it. That's even more noticeable and detrimental on sinkers, especially draggy wave boards. We mortals, especially on small rockered boards, rig them with loose leeches to lower the COE so we're not fighting that overhead power that's trying to bury the nose.

It all goes back to CHOICES ... at least once we understand our options.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 830

PostPosted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

High COE can be nice for slog and ride since you can waterstart in very minimal wind.
The HSM superfreaks I have sail great tight up top and like crap if they show any static looseness. They lose both speed and power with too much DH.
Whereas my Northwave ZXs absolutely cannot be rigged without a lot of looseness yet on a per meter basis have more power than the superfreaks.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1103
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jingebritsen wrote:
one day at a local launch captonian was complaining about that very thing concerning his 4.2 pryde. we were wave sailing. i tuned it, he came back and said it was much more enjoyable.


Not enough downhaul = twitchy / heavy in the hands. Post tuning = right downhaul and much improved.
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konajoe



Joined: 28 Feb 2010
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Go to internet. Go to manufacturer's web site. Find your year and model. Read tuning guide for your specific sails.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 952

PostPosted: Thu Sep 20, 2018 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It does take time to feel and analyze the feeling of a sail. How does one know whether it's sail tuning, board, fin or technique? That's where specs come into play.

Even with specs though, usually when getting close to appropriate downhaul with appropriate mast, there's a certain resistance felt. Them adjustment becomes much more precise, it's like not enough, not enough, stop that's it! 1cm more and the sail is dead with no low end.

Luckily settings don't matter that much when matching the size with the wind speed. They become more important relevant when outside of that zone.

Another weird thing, I used to sail from 3.7 to 9.2, 77L/56cm to 156L/100cm, with Neilpryde, North and Gaastra sails, from wave to slalom sails and don't remember ever struggling with sail settings until I moved to Cabarete???

Only recently I have been feeling the difference between a baggy under sized sail versus a tighter larger one. I've always liked to sail with smaller just so I can commit with more confidence maybe to the detriment of speed.

Anyway fascinating sport, a faster bigger board can compensate a lighter not so powerful sail and vice versa.

Not sure where I was going with this but this sport is just so fascinating! The essence of life and freedom!

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