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Fin surface area seems too small. Comments?
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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 7:53 pm    Post subject: Fin surface area seems too small. Comments? Reply with quote

Greetings all. I just got my hands on a 2012 83L Quatro KT quad. In reading about fins for the board, I found that the factory supplied/recommended fin size is 300 sq. cm. This seems to equate to a pair of back fins in the 14.5cm range, and front fins perhaps a 9-10cm. I had been looking at Makanis that would take me to around 330 sq.cm., but was given the fins that the previous owner got with the board (I believe he bought second hand.), which are an MFC 250 set. Sure seem small.

According the archives for Quatro, the only KT quad for 2012 that would have an MFC 250 set is the smallest of the three offered, the 69L. Both the 76L and the 83L should have the MFC 300 set. Since I want to have the board have a nice ability to point, and not be overly squirrely, I'm thinking that the 250 set is not going to cut it for my type of sailing, which is forever stuck in intermediate level. I've been told that I ride waves more like a surfer, which I was for many years before taking up windsurfing. I guess there is a difference. Don't ask. Cool

Any comments? Experience with this particular board and fin sizes? Any help is appreciated before I step up and buy fins before I even know if I'll like the board. The boards I ride mostly today are a '12 Simmer 95L thruster and '09 Quatro 86L single-fin. In addition I have a 76L Quatro wave-single from '07 that only gets ridden 1-2 days per year. Other times I just carry it in the car, reportedly to kill the wind. Shocked Thanks ahead of time. Cheers.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What size sail are you planing on using? If you'll be in the mid to lower range, you may be fine. What type of sailing?

I used my Quad (Starboard) with 13's and 11's. It's a bit light with 5.0 but I could manage if I wanted to. In medium-light... ooompff but in solid medium to 4.5, it's fine. On the wave, wow it's amazing.

I did end up setting it up with 16's and 11's and I can still turn the beast and release up top. The 16's are MFC Flex so not super solid but good lift for my light weight.

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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2018 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, manuel. Sail size will probably be 4.5-5.3. If I 5.3 won't get me going, I'd probably use my 95L for anything bigger, like 5.6M. 5.3M has been my go-to sail for most of the last year, with maybe 20% of days with a 5.6M. I'd be using this board in waves with side to side-off direction. Cheers.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1065
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 6:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would use the thrusters from the 250 set and just buy bigger rear fins. My Cube came with the 350 fin set, and the rear fins are about 16.5 deep, so using that as a guide I'd guess around 15.5 or 16 cm rear fins combined with the front thrusters from the 250 set should be enough fin area for <5.3

My personal preference is that I like lots of fin area. I also prefer twins to quads except when overpowered (quads are noticeably easier to sail than twins when overpowered), so I put blanking plates in the front fin boxes and oversized twin fins in the rear boxes.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4838
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.k4fins.com/fin-size-guide/

http://www.k4fins.com/fin-specs/

http://www.iwindsurf.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=19494
On this scroll down to make a pretty close assessment of the area of your fins,
Or compare to the K4 chart with specs.

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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4838
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using a 83L quad 5.0m and below .
Leon 16cm the area is 122
Stubby 16cm the area is 130

Can already see the size area .difference of same size in length.

Using Leon 16 and Stubby front 8 = 338
Using Stubby 16/8 = 354

Personally i would try 15.5cm and 10s.

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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your input, folks.

I was thinking along the lines of what capetonian suggested, going for larger rears before getting a full set of quad fins. I have one 15cm/US box that came stock in my Simmer FSW. I've been looking for another to match it but haven't had luck on the secondary market. I've also eyed the Makani Walu and Walu II's, but was looking at 15cm/9cm combo. I'm still leaning that way, but perhaps with 16's on the back.


U2U2U2:
A friend who uses K4 fins recommended a set. My perceived drawback is in rock vs. fin durability. As far as I have seen and heard, G10 is a near must for the rock place that I sail. If the K4's can stand up to the occasional rock hit the way G10 does, the K4's would be stronger contenders. I'm open for other suggestions, defenses, etc. Thanks.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4838
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 10:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

theq wrote:
Thanks for your input, folks.

I was thinking along the lines of what capetonian suggested, going for larger rears before getting a full set of quad fins. I have one 15cm/US box that came stock in my Simmer FSW. I've been looking for another to match it but haven't had luck on the secondary market. I've also eyed the Makani Walu and Walu II's, but was looking at 15cm/9cm combo. I'm still leaning that way, but perhaps with 16's on the back.


U2U2U2:
A friend who uses K4 fins recommended a set. My perceived drawback is in rock vs. fin durability. As far as I have seen and heard, G10 is a near must for the rock place that I sail. If the K4's can stand up to the occasional rock hit the way G10 does, the K4's would be stronger contenders. I'm open for other suggestions, defenses, etc. Thanks.


First thing I would determine is what size fins you have ,the 300cm2 IMO near useless.
I used K4 fin specs because they exist. I use K4 on many applications, multi , FSW, wave and home made mini foil . They started with multii fins, which are short, DUH, the likehood of hitting bottom/rocks is less than a longer fin, DUH.
When they impact , they dont nick so much like a G10 would, think more like a RTM, resin transfer mold , fin. They are easy to bring back into shape.
They cost near half what a fancy G10 would, and give the sailer room to experiment.
I sail a rocky glacier lake in Maine and Hatteras sound. Shallow and rocky beyond words.
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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 796

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

side to sideoff perfect! You'll love the board. What's your weight? In sideon to on, I would see the need for bigger fins possibly but for proper waves, you may be fine.

What size waves? Choppy wave face? It takes a lot to lose a quad. I did try 16s + 8s, preferred 11s up front. The starboard is different and I don't sail side to sideoff Very Happy ! Or rarely...

Tony has the same quad here and it's fine even on our messy sideon. Only thing watch out for low volume up front apparently.

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theq



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 663

PostPosted: Tue Oct 09, 2018 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

On size of existing fins:

I expected a 15-16cm on the rears, but they are closer to 13.5cm. I'll get an exact measurement later. This coupled with the fact that I can read "250" on the fins, brings me to them being 250cm. So if the 300's are useless, the 250's are worse. I've been sailing a long time, but am not in a position of skill to be able to sail with what the pros sail with, at least according the Black Project's fins suggestion graph. Based on my abilities, as well as suggestions from folks here, I'm pretty sure I want to be in the 330+cm setup. One thing I do know, which has been confirmed here, is that the 250's would make things very difficult on me, and I'd end up hating the board.

After dealing with a poorly-finned (for me anyway) thruster issue (140 fronts, 150 back) on my 95L FSW, and finding it vastly improved by adding 30cm to the back and subtracting 40cm from the fronts, I know what a difference fins can make. It pointed way better for me, and was much slashier on turns. Capetonian, who used to sail in my area, helped me narrow the sizes down there. It was mostly about the larger center fin. A buddy had given me a couple of 10cm side-bites, and they, coupled with the Makani Kaku 18cm, brought the board to life for my style of sailing.

Thanks for your input U2(3). Cheers.
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