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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:43 pm    Post subject: Big sail users post here Reply with quote

I'm still fascinated by the 10, 11, 12 meter sails. Mainly because I've never sailed one and don't know what they could offer.

What kind of top speeds do you see? What kind of wind range do you run them in? What's your minimum wind speed to get planing in? What's your setup?

Yeah I know about the foils, but I'm just not there yet.
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joethewindsufa



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 1075
Location: Montréal

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i am a BIG, fat , lazy windsurfer
as a weekend warrior, i am missing skills
had a full race TR-4 10 meter sail for some time
it has wide luff and 4 cambers = HEAVY

https://youtu.be/OrQ9ZnsapuM

used it mostly on wide freerides like BIC Techno Formula
and JP SLW92
mostly used in 20-30 kph winds

since then I got a GA Swift freerace sail with narrow luff and 2 cambers
PITA to rig and de-rig, BUT so much lighter and easier to use

been using it on the wide JP SLW92 and longboard MEQ2 XR
on the longboard in 20 + kph winds = light wind setup
no good videos with this setup YET

https://youtu.be/MQPDrWAes3M
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4195
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Only used a 10.5 once, Formula and Np.
Sailed 9's maybe a dozen times, current upper limit is 7.4.
Big sails need +130 liter and wider than 80cm boards, which limit wind to -16 mph max. Planing with 10.5 doesn't start till 10 mph for me at 160lbs., but a correctly tuned 7.5 can be pumped up to a plane around 11mph breeze, so why bigger?
I've even shrunken board size to 111 Isonic, which starts planing in 15 mph gusts, glides thru 13, and tops out higher speeds than anything wider than 70cm.
Current thought is foiling with a +76cm board for 6-19 mph breezes.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1149

PostPosted: Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They offer almost nothing unless you race and need to win to make a living.
Maybe if your a really big guy. A modern 7.5 has huge tuning range. The right board and a little pumping should be all you need. When you start talking 12 meter sails your adding a bunch of weight and drag. The cost of the sail and a good boom and mast just don't add up for the average guy. Dealing with gear that big makes windsurfing more exhausting than fun. I'm just learning to foil and I can get up and flying on a 5.2 in very little wind. And its a bunch of fun to be flying with out a white cap in site.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3381

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a 9.2 and 11.0 Maui Sails TR race sails. I raced formula for 10? years (not any more), but still have a formula board and occasionally use the 9.2. It will plane in 10-12 mph winds with pumping. I weight 170. I don't use the 11.0 any more because the wind range is limited, meaning that in the typical gusty lake sailing conditions I occasionally sail in (5-20), I get hammered in the gust. The 9.2 has a better range.

The only reason for these large sails is racing, or if your typical wind is light and you want to plane. The cost for the booms, sails and masts is pretty darn high as well. A 130-140 L board and an 8.4 will get you pretty close to the planing threshold of the bigger sails.

You don't get a lot of speed because of the deeper foil and the drag. In the right conditions I can almost double the wind speed (10 knots of wind = 20 mph in speed), but top end isn't nearly as fast as smaller freeride boards.
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 959
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 12:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would disagree that large sails are “only” for racers. I raced formula for 5 or so years back when it was really popular, but I also used the formula gear tons for recreational sailing when I lived near an inland lake. Others that didn’t race also enjoyed using that gear.

Formula gear can be incredibly fun if you predominantly sail in places where the windspeed maxes out around 15mph. I’m 6’-3” and 200 lbs, so my 11.0 and 12.5 saw a lot of use. For recreational sailing, a 12.5 is probably overkill, but an 11.0 will certainly be used if you’re big. Smaller guys will probably prefer 9.0 to 10.0. It all really depends on how light of wind you want to sail in. With my big gear, 10mph was more than enough to get going, especially with good pumping technique. Once planing, the wind can dip much lower and you can stay on plane and “connect the dots” between puffs for some really fun, technical, sailing.

Don’t get too hung up on max speed. The boards and rigs can go incredibly fast when tuned and sailed properly. But’s what’s even more impressive is how fast you’re going relative to the true windspeed. You can go 2 to 2.5 times true windspeed (easily 20mph) be fully wound up, powered and planing solidly in the straps, ripping on very flat water. It is a different style from “normal” back and forth sailing. The most important thing is to have gear that all works together properly. There’s no point in getting an 11 meter sail if you don’t also have the correct board and fin to run it on (formula or free-formula). Proper tuning, a good adjustable outhaul system, and a sturdy carbon boom are also essential.

sm
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mamero



Joined: 25 Aug 2013
Posts: 369
Location: Vancouver, Canada

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm 5'6" 140 lbs. I bought an 8.6 Sailworks NX the end of last season. Only sailed it once in too light of conditions so can't really comment on it yet. It's an upgrade in size from a 7.5 camless Retro. At 140 pounds an 8.6 is equivalent to a 12.0 for a 200 pound sailor. "Big" is certainly relative along with "small" sails.
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NOVAAN



Joined: 28 Sep 1994
Posts: 1149

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

David Ezzy designed the Cheetah around a 6.5 sail. He stated that size might be the largest sail in a quiver for some and the smallest sail in a quiver for other. So big is just a matter of where you sail. Still the cost, weight and drag plus carrying and transporting the big stuff makes foiling a very good option. I started in 1981. I'm lucky enough to be still doing this. I'm retired and can pick the days I want to sail. I live near a lake that that blows good all summer. My big sail is a 5.8 and its the least used one in my quiver. The locals complain if they need a 6.5 to get going. Short back and forth sailing on a 12 meter would be exhausting. So my point of view might be a bit bias toward the small stuff. I go to South Padre every April. Its warm shallow and huge. I play golf or go fishing when its lite. I do see guys riding big gear and if they get it working it can be a 5 mile ride. Of course if it dies, its a up haul and a long slog back..
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 703

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an 11.5 that I don't bother rigging. If the wind is that light I'd rather be on a light/tight leech 8.5 2 cam and my raceboard.

Anything more than 10-12 and I'll foil with a 7.2.

After I started foiling I sold my formula board.
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rtz



Joined: 31 Oct 2010
Posts: 246
Location: Oklahoma City

PostPosted: Fri Jan 11, 2019 5:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My fascination with the 10-12 meter gear was mainly in hopes it would open up and allow for the sub 10 mph wind days. But apparently it's not optimal for extremely light conditions?

I think the big sails were tuned for being in powered up racing conditions. Not built light and tuned for a 5 mph breeze?
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