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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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 Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | | Lots of stuff on higher education these days, and rightfully so, the system has been corrupted. So in light of that, this survey has come out, which was taken a bit earlier than the latest news. To me, one thing stands out, is affirmative action on it's way out? |
[as per chart on previous page]
The college admissions scam opens a new front in the affirmative action debate
By John Blake, CNN
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
No leg up or handouts in America.
Why take a spot away from a more deserving student?
Those phrases are part of the rhetorical toolkit opponents of affirmative action have long used to attack the policy. But defenders of using racial preferences in college admissions now have a new response to complaints that undeserving black and brown students are getting help:
What about the college cheating scandal?
The outrage over the scam laid out by federal prosecutors has opened a new battleground in the affirmative action war. Opponents of the policy say the allegations bolster their arguments that elite colleges can't be trusted to vet students impartially. Defenders of racial preferences say, "There's a lot more kids at elite colleges because their parents are rich than because they're brown or black."
Looming behind this debate is a big question that may take years to answer:
Could revelations from the cheating scandal actually save affirmative action, if and when the US Supreme Court takes up the issue again?
So far, there's little indication to think the scheme uncovered by the feds could sway the court's conservative majority -- which has been shaped by a legal movement long opposed to affirmative action.
Some affirmative action critics, when asked why preferential treatment for racial minorities is wrong but giving a leg up to wealthy students, children of donors and legacy admissions is OK, say both are dubious.
Whether an unqualified student gets into college from the "racial preference pool" or the "celebrities-and-cheaters pool," it's not right, says Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank in Washington.
"If racial preference is unjust, then it doesn't magically become just because people notice some other injustice that has different beneficiaries," Olson says. "Two things can be unjust at the same time, and two injustices do not add up to one justice."
For the rest (kind of lengthy) ~
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-college-admissions-scam-opens-a-new-front-in-the-affirmative-action-debate/ar-BBURXtN?ocid=spartanntp |
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boggsman1
Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 9120
Location: at a computer
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 10:31 am Post subject: |
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| vientomas wrote: | | mat-ty wrote: | | mac wrote: | Yes. Son of a criminal, son-in-law of a criminal. How many crimes has he committed?
| Quote: | I would like to express my gratitude to Jared Kushner for reviving interest in my 2006 book, “The Price of Admission.” I have never met or spoken with him, and it’s rare in this life to find such a selfless benefactor. Of course, I doubt he became Donald Trump’s son-in-law and consigliere merely to boost my lagging sales, but still, I’m thankful.
My book exposed a grubby secret of American higher education: that the rich buy their under-achieving children’s way into elite universities with massive, tax-deductible donations. It reported that New Jersey real estate developer Charles Kushner had pledged $2.5 million to Harvard University in 1998, not long before his son Jared was admitted to the prestigious Ivy League school. At the time, Harvard accepted about one of every nine applicants. (Nowadays, it only takes one out of twenty.)
I also quoted administrators at Jared’s high school, who described him as a less than stellar student and expressed dismay at Harvard’s decision.
“There was no way anybody in the administrative office of the school thought he would on the merits get into Harvard,” a former official at The Frisch School in Paramus, New Jersey, told me. “His GPA did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it. We thought for sure, there was no way this was going to happen. Then, lo and behold, Jared was accepted. It was a little bit disappointing because there were at the time other kids we thought should really get in on the merits, and they did not.” |
I wonder how that happened? NW--how come you are all in on these criminals? |
Do think Obama was Harvard material?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????....must be why his past was all but erased from history...
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Obama graduated magna cum laude and was editor of the Law Review at Harvard. Academic performance, not money or affirmative action, is the only way to earn those honors. So yes, I do think Obama was Harvard material. You on the other hand...not so much. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011
Posts: 14879
Location: on earth
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| nw30 wrote: | | nw30 wrote: | | Lots of stuff on higher education these days, and rightfully so, the system has been corrupted. So in light of that, this survey has come out, which was taken a bit earlier than the latest news. To me, one thing stands out, is affirmative action on it's way out? |
[as per chart on previous page]
The college admissions scam opens a new front in the affirmative action debate
By John Blake, CNN
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
No leg up or handouts in America.
Why take a spot away from a more deserving student?
Those phrases are part of the rhetorical toolkit opponents of affirmative action have long used to attack the policy. But defenders of using racial preferences in college admissions now have a new response to complaints that undeserving black and brown students are getting help:
What about the college cheating scandal?
The outrage over the scam laid out by federal prosecutors has opened a new battleground in the affirmative action war. Opponents of the policy say the allegations bolster their arguments that elite colleges can't be trusted to vet students impartially. Defenders of racial preferences say, "There's a lot more kids at elite colleges because their parents are rich than because they're brown or black."
Looming behind this debate is a big question that may take years to answer:
Could revelations from the cheating scandal actually save affirmative action, if and when the US Supreme Court takes up the issue again?
So far, there's little indication to think the scheme uncovered by the feds could sway the court's conservative majority -- which has been shaped by a legal movement long opposed to affirmative action.
Some affirmative action critics, when asked why preferential treatment for racial minorities is wrong but giving a leg up to wealthy students, children of donors and legacy admissions is OK, say both are dubious.
Whether an unqualified student gets into college from the "racial preference pool" or the "celebrities-and-cheaters pool," it's not right, says Walter Olson, a senior fellow at the Cato Institute, a libertarian think tank in Washington.
"If racial preference is unjust, then it doesn't magically become just because people notice some other injustice that has different beneficiaries," Olson says. "Two things can be unjust at the same time, and two injustices do not add up to one justice."
For the rest (kind of lengthy) ~
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/the-college-admissions-scam-opens-a-new-front-in-the-affirmative-action-debate/ar-BBURXtN?ocid=spartanntp |
oh the poor white right wing victims of history, you are such victims, you paid such a price building america and for what she stands for, selling slaves is such hard work, so is whipping them till they pass out or a good old lynching. You right wing racist haters have had to endure that and end up with the spoils of money, jobs and trusts.
and think about it, in Germany, they only made slaves and lamps of jewish people for a few years and they realized their corporations benefited and they paid reparations many years later.
_________________
when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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One must ask what is really behind Affirmative Action. It's all about promoting diversity, and it's a worthy goal overall.
I think that even without an affirmative action requirement, that many respected colleges and universities would still attempt to support diversity and give minority students without a stellar grade point average and sky high test scores an opportunity for acceptance and admission. |
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mat-ty
Joined: 07 Jul 2007
Posts: 7850
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 3:31 pm Post subject: |
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| vientomas wrote: | | mat-ty wrote: | | mac wrote: | Yes. Son of a criminal, son-in-law of a criminal. How many crimes has he committed?
| Quote: | I would like to express my gratitude to Jared Kushner for reviving interest in my 2006 book, “The Price of Admission.” I have never met or spoken with him, and it’s rare in this life to find such a selfless benefactor. Of course, I doubt he became Donald Trump’s son-in-law and consigliere merely to boost my lagging sales, but still, I’m thankful.
My book exposed a grubby secret of American higher education: that the rich buy their under-achieving children’s way into elite universities with massive, tax-deductible donations. It reported that New Jersey real estate developer Charles Kushner had pledged $2.5 million to Harvard University in 1998, not long before his son Jared was admitted to the prestigious Ivy League school. At the time, Harvard accepted about one of every nine applicants. (Nowadays, it only takes one out of twenty.)
I also quoted administrators at Jared’s high school, who described him as a less than stellar student and expressed dismay at Harvard’s decision.
“There was no way anybody in the administrative office of the school thought he would on the merits get into Harvard,” a former official at The Frisch School in Paramus, New Jersey, told me. “His GPA did not warrant it, his SAT scores did not warrant it. We thought for sure, there was no way this was going to happen. Then, lo and behold, Jared was accepted. It was a little bit disappointing because there were at the time other kids we thought should really get in on the merits, and they did not.” |
I wonder how that happened? NW--how come you are all in on these criminals? |
Do think Obama was Harvard material?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????....must be why his past was all but erased from history...
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Obama graduated magna cum laude and was editor of the Law Review at Harvard. Academic performance, not money or affirmative action, is the only way to earn those honors. So yes, I do think Obama was Harvard material. You on the other hand...not so much. |
Really???? or is that what you heard....and he never wrote an article for the review.... By his own admission he was a stoner and bad student....nice try!! |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | One must ask what is really behind Affirmative Action. It's all about promoting diversity, and it's a worthy goal overall.
I think that even without an affirmative action requirement, that many respected colleges and universities would still attempt to support diversity and give minority students without a stellar grade point average and sky high test scores an opportunity for acceptance and admission. |
Affirmative action gives elementary and high schools little reason to really try harder to prepare their students, one reason we see little scholastic improvement w/in the minority community. Especially when you consider how they are measuring up to students from other modern countries. Which is one of the reasons A.A. has been falling out of favor, it does nothing to improve the quality of pre college education. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 6:57 pm Post subject: |
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| No affirmative action is necessary if your crooked Dad gives enough money to Harvard--or Yale. |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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NW30, I thought that we were talking about colleges and universities.
Why don't you fill us all in on affirmative action requirements in K-12 schools, and especially in how they screw everything up in public schooling. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 17747
Location: Berkeley, California
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| Posted: Mon Mar 18, 2019 11:19 pm Post subject: |
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Affirmative action for lazy white sons?
| Quote: | By Delano R. Franklin and Samuel W. Zwickel, Crimson Staff Writers
June 20, 2018
Over 33 percent of legacy applicants—Harvard hopefuls with at least one parent who graduated from the College or Radcliffe—gained admission to the Classes of 2014 through 2019, according to documents filed Friday in an admissions lawsuit against the University.
Anti-affirmative action group Students for Fair Admissions—who first brought the lawsuit against Harvard in 2014—points to the University’s long-controversial consideration of legacy status in admissions processes in their court filings. The admission rate of legacy applicants is over five times that of non-legacy students, according to one filing.
In each of the admitted Classes of 2007 through 2016, the number of accepted legacy students has been greater than the number of first-generation students, senior fellow at The Century Foundation Richard D. Kahlenberg wrote in another filing submitted by SFFA.
In addition, SFFA’s expert witness, Duke professor Peter S. Arcidiacono, found the preference given to legacy students disproportionately favors white students.
In his filings, he claimed more than 21.5 percent of white admitted students are also legacy admits. Around 6.96 percent of Hispanic admits, 6.63 percent of Asian-American admits, and 4.79 percent of African-American admits were students with legacy status, according to Arcidiacono’s analysis. |
For example, George W. Bush at Yale. And Donald and Don Jr and Kushner. White privilege at work.
https://www.philly.com/education/college-admission-scandal-trump-donald-jr-university-pennsylvania-wharton-kushner-20190314.html |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 6485
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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| Posted: Tue Mar 19, 2019 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | NW30, I thought that we were talking about colleges and universities.
Why don't you fill us all in on affirmative action requirements in K-12 schools, and especially in how they screw everything up in public schooling. |
I'll let your snide second sentence slide, trying to be cute, you weren't, so forget that.
We are, at least I am. All that stuff is supposed to be a prerequisite education for getting into college, the prerequisite years are supposed to be the important ones so that you don't have to rely on some A.A. to get you into college. It's all about college. |
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