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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12023
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The environmental reviews backing several oil and gas lease sales conducted by the Obama administration's Bureau of Land Management for leases in Wyoming were struck down by Judge Rudolph Contreras, for the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, who said the BLM should have projected greenhouse gas emissions resulting from energy production. Contreras did not vacate the leases, but the BLM may not approve new oil and gas wells on the leases until it finishes a supplemental environmental analysis. (E&E News)


Quote:
Virginia Gov. Ralph Northam (D) signed legislation that will require Richmond, Va.-based Dominion Energy Inc. to excavate its coal ash ponds, recycling at least one-quarter of 27 million cubic yards of existing coal ash and relocating the rest to modern landfills. Under the law, Dominion will be able to recover the cost of the cleanup, estimated at between $2.4 billion and $5.7 billion, from its customers, along with financing costs and a profit - an allowance that is expected to add $5 to monthly household electric bills for 15-20 years. (Richmond Times-Dispatch )
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9319

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The pyramids were built in the rainforest thousands of years ago."


Can you imagine the difficulty in navigating regimens of horses and chariots in the jungle rainforest?
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 419

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT, of course you are right about China and other things. Most people who understand global warming as a real and serious problem are aware that finding the right policies to best limit global warming is difficult; and I think this includes most of the demonstrating kids. Carbon taxes are an obvious policy based on the judgement of reasonable people, but again it’s not easy to do it right, like the French example shows.

Unfortunately, in this country, we still have to deal with people like nw30, MalibuG, techno and the entire Republican party, who don't even acknowledge that there is a big problem. And when you muse about your Russian magic wand or how back in the days, before the dinosaurs roamed or so, we had even higher CO2 levels and things were just swell, join that group on occasion. (I don't think that you don’t care, and apologize if I imply that.)

It seems unavoidable to move on without those people since they are not amenable to reason. I mean they still make these arguments that Al Gore promoted global warming therefore it must be wrong, that some scientists decades ago wrongly predicted cooling therefore today's global warming projections must be wrong, that the climate has changed independently of humans in Earth's history therefore today's climate change must also occur independently of humans, that models of global warming do not take "global wobbling" into account and therefore must be wrong. (The very special arguments that the pyramids were built in rainforests illustrates the not amenable to reason problem; it gets repeated even after some here tried to explain that that was not the case.)


Last edited by LHDR on Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:28 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12023
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.washingtonpost.com/weather/2019/03/19/satellite-images-show-devastating-floods-midwest/?utm_term=.eca4ecf43f62&wpisrc=nl_most&wpmm=1

More evidence for Bard to ignore. The poor boy suspects this is all a plot to get him to pay more taxes. What a snowflake. So to speak.
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nw30



Joined: 21 Dec 2008
Posts: 5528
Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Caution, very important warning, must heed!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
U.N. Predicts Disaster if Global Warming Not Checked
PETER JAMES SPIELMANN
June 29, 1989

UNITED NATIONS (AP) _ A senior U.N. environmental official says entire nations could be wiped off the face of the Earth by rising sea levels if the global warming trend is not reversed by the year 2000.

Coastal flooding and crop failures would create an exodus of ″eco- refugees,′ ′ threatening political chaos, said Noel Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, or UNEP.

He said governments have a 10-year window of opportunity to solve the greenhouse effect before it goes beyond human control.

As the warming melts polar icecaps, ocean levels will rise by up to three feet, enough to cover the Maldives and other flat island nations, Brown told The Associated Press in an interview on Wednesday.

Coastal regions will be inundated; one-sixth of Bangladesh could be flooded, displacing a fourth of its 90 million people. A fifth of Egypt’s arable land in the Nile Delta would be flooded, cutting off its food supply, according to a joint UNEP and U.S. Environmental Protection Agency study.

″Ecological refugees will become a major concern, and what’s worse is you may find that people can move to drier ground, but the soils and the natural resources may not support life. Africa doesn’t have to worry about land, but would you want to live in the Sahara?″ he said.

UNEP estimates it would cost the United States at least $100 billion to protect its east coast alone.

Shifting climate patterns would bring back 1930s Dust Bowl conditions to Canadian and U.S. wheatlands, while the Soviet Union could reap bumper crops if it adapts its agriculture in time, according to a study by UNEP and the International Institute for Applied Systems Analysis.

Excess carbon dioxide is pouring into the atmosphere because of humanity’s use of fossil fuels and burning of rain forests, the study says. The atmosphere is retaining more heat than it radiates, much like a greenhouse.

The most conservative scientific estimate that the Earth’s temperature will rise 1 to 7 degrees in the next 30 years, said Brown.

The most conservative scientific estimate that the Earth’s temperature will rise 1 to 7 degrees in the next 30 years, said Brown.

The difference may seem slight, he said, but the planet is only 9 degrees warmer now than during the 8,000-year Ice Age that ended 10,000 years ago.

Brown said if the warming trend continues, ″the question is will we be able to reverse the process in time? We say that within the next 10 years, given the present loads that the atmosphere has to bear, we have an opportunity to start the stabilizing process.″

He said even the most conservative scientists ″already tell us there’s nothing we can do now to stop a ... change″ of about 3 degrees.

″Anything beyond that, and we have to start thinking about the significant rise of the sea levels ... we can expect more ferocious storms, hurricanes, wind shear, dust erosion.″

He said there is time to act, but there is no time to waste.

UNEP is working toward forming a scientific plan of action by the end of 1990, and the adoption of a global climate treaty by 1992. In May, delegates from 103 nations met in Nairobi, Kenya - where UNEP is based - and decided to open negotiations on the treaty next year.

Nations will be asked to reduce the use of fossil fuels, cut the emission of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases such as methane and fluorocarbons, and preserve the rain forests.

″We have no clear idea about the ecological minimum of green space that the planet needs to function effectively. What we do know is that we are destroying the tropical rain forest at the rate of 50 acres a minute, about one football field per second,″ said Brown.

Each acre of rain forest can store 100 tons of carbon dioxide and reprocess it into oxygen.

Brown suggested that compensating Brazil, Indonesia and Kenya for preserving rain forests may be necessary.

The European Community istalking about a half-cent levy on each kilowatt- hour of fossil fuels to raise $55 million a year to protect the rain forests, and other direct subsidies may be possible, he said.

The treaty could also call for improved energy efficiency, increasing conservation, and for developed nations to transfer technology to Third World nations to help them save energy and cut greenhouse gas emissions, said Brown.

https://www.apnews.com/bd45c372caf118ec99964ea547880cd0?fbclid=IwAR2RGAP5f1zXLFF80GoM0FroPVXQcqmZKXrM2zsKzqqX_ua-jZJidD0p5NY

Now what was it that mac always like to say about forgetting history?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12023
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 7:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The report was correct. The timeline was wrong.
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LHDR



Joined: 22 Jun 2007
Posts: 419

PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2019 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
The report was correct. The timeline was wrong.

Yeah, a reasonable report. I think what actually bothered nw30 are not all the warming predictions but that Mr. Brown, director of the New York office of the U.N. Environment Program, mentions Kenya, along with Brazil and Indonesia, as countries to be compensated for preserving rainforests. And I would have to agree with nw30 because as far as I know, Kenya's rainforest area is minuscule compared to Brazil's and Indonesia's. My guess is that Brown was thinking of the Republic of Congo in Africa. Big difference.

PS. Had Mr. Brown studied as hard as MalibuG, he would have included Egypt's huge rainforest.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 12023
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 12:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you read “Collapse” by Jared Diamond?. Author of ‘Guns, Germs and Steel”?
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GURGLETROUSERS



Joined: 30 Dec 2009
Posts: 2262

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 3:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR. Sorry if I sounded off. I keep saying I don't want to get 'het up', but our self serving arrogant political class have landed our country in a constitutional crisis, which millions of us who care find hard to take!

Of course I don't believe in magic wands, but I admit to scouring the theories, and clinging to hope that there could be a self correcting (predicted) cooling period ahead. I don't see anything irrational in that hope - I didn't do the study, and those who did are hardly charlatans or crackpots! If they believe, who am I to argue?

What I will say is that whatever remedial action the world could agree on would inevitably reverse decades of economic progress UNLESS there is discovered a reliable and equivalently massive enough clean alternative to equal the current output from fossil sources. (Oil, coal,gas nuclear.) Without that there will certainly be a cap on, and probable reversal of the world economy.

Incidentally, a new study claims that the human brain does not fully develop ( which can affect decision making) until at least the age of 30 (ish). Might I therefore suggest that we ban all those in their mere twenties from the arena of political decision making?
And I'm not at all sure I'm actually just joking!!!
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mrgybe



Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 4495

PostPosted: Thu Mar 21, 2019 10:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LHDR wrote:
Yeah, a reasonable report.......My guess is that Brown was thinking of the Republic of Congo in Africa. Big difference.

PS. Had Mr. Brown studied as hard as MalibuG, he would have included Egypt's huge rainforest.

I have lived in Kenya. I have also worked in Republic of Congo, or Zaire as it was then. Anyone with a scintilla of knowledge of the region could not possibly confuse the two. The opinions of someone who does are worthless. It was not a reasonable report just a bit off on the timing. Anyone can give that excuse on any topic. He was wrong.

Incidentally, I have also worked and traveled in Egypt. Before further mocking the notion of a forested Sahara in relatively recent history, you may wish to read the attached.

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/science-nature/what-really-turned-sahara-desert-green-oasis-wasteland-180962668/
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