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Looping before the big 4.0 - crap only 6 days
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 971
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, I like to rig a smaller sail but baggy with tons of pop and power for most anything freestyle oriented. The small size helps to move it around, and the bagginess gives you the juice that you need to make your moves. Under downhauling a bit will move the draft up a touch, too, which can give the sail a really nice whippy feel for loops.

Once you get the technique and muscle memory down, you can start using bigger sails again (if you desire).

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the most relevant post I've ever read. I can relate 100%!

Will reply more later hopefully with a few landed attempts. Had a fantastic session yesterday where delaying the sheeting in action to reach farther forward led to very smooth and natural rotations!

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Thu Dec 20, 2018 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's it, I finally got it. Conditions a bit hardcore with crazy water state 16-27 knots, strong waves.

First attempt, leant forward, held then sheeted in, wooosh, pow, landed. I landed most of my attempts, zero worries, zero issues. Only one it felt like I spun too much downwind but I don't think it's over rotation.

The secret was to hold on sheeting in until farther forward. That's why I had trouble using a larger sail. Now no problem.

It feels like I don't need speed, ramp or even take off at all, all I need is lean forward with the sail open until there's zero pressure in the sail and on the mast foot. Then I sheet in and woosh Smile !

I feel like it's important to stay tucked so legs can absorb the impact at landing especially if the board rotates some.

Happiest man in the world Smile !

Ooooh, I landed a small backloop and was close on 2 huge ones (sail ripped out of hands).

Will post video soon. Should be a good one!

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Fri Dec 21, 2018 10:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Click to view video on my site:


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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Fri Jan 04, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landed 5 today out of 6 or 7. Feeling so stoked! Can't believe it. It's so hardcore even landing then. Backloops are so much smoother with soft landings.

One finding is that leaning towards the wind upon takeoff, it may be easier for very flat water, low speeds or first attempts but the board lands at an angle. It feels a bit more natural to stay more upright reaching as far forward as possible with the front hand before sheeting in.

The other day. I tried some upwind speed loops or at least thought they were upwind! Basically, needed to steer board downwind in the air, then threw the sail and... waited, the rotation seemed delayed and slow! I think it matches comments above. Not as explosive as attempts farther away from the wind. They felt like they need more initial speed and more wind.

I also ran into this video. It has new school, old school, and just cool loops. It has late and lame ones. Nice to relax Smile

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rzELXD5IDH4

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2019 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yoohoo!

Well, lately I've been hitting the top of my sail first, it's odd... I was thinking maybe lack of initial speed. Anyway, got a good one with my elbow up all the way, felt really nice in the air as opposed to just passively hang from the boom.

I was browsing through the different styles of loops and ran into this example:
https://www.dailydose.de/moves/videos/185/move-spinloop-01.htm

I like it more than others because of how we can see the rider's pop, tuck, and look. The way the sail is offered is more technical/advanced than what we'd do in earlier stages but it's my personal favorite style of loops. I believe it's the one that preserves the most forward momentum.

We can see how the sail opens up and is sliced into the wind in an exaggerated motion at the pop. Then, arms position stay the same throughout while tucked in. It does look like, despite his initial speed, the sail could have been a bit more powered through the rotation to land without pumping. Maybe, he leaned a little too much into the wind at the pop or hit a semi-lull, what's your take?

Love it though. Koester's has really nice ones but the sail masks his arms upon take-off: https://www.dailydose.de/moves/videos/185/move-spinloop-15.htm

I briefly calculated my landed loops since the first and I have just reached 150 Smile ! Well beyond my backloops now. The most I landed in a row was 3 and most for the day 8! Currently looking to try them on bigger waves and land them planing. Still unsure about trying them again on port tack?

EDIT: Just beat my day record with 15 landed!

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A little summary of yesterday's 30-knot session, was intense.
Still I was still somewhat inside of my comfort zone Smile !


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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Tue May 07, 2019 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now pretty comfortable throwing them fully powered, I've been trying to plane out of them... wow how insanely hard is it! Despite full speed, strong winds and waves, I still wasn't able to land on the board even!

But the good news is that I understood why, I need to tuck my back leg under. So first, speed up, wait for gust with ramp, bring sail across, pop, throw everything forward, then wait (weird stage), then pull and tuck.

When back forward then hope all of the effort lead to a not as wet landing!

Wow, just wow... then how much does it take to go around twice!!??

Should have some good footage from yesterday. Spot has been on fire for a month. Huge progress, feels amazing!

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kevinkan



Joined: 07 Jun 2001
Posts: 1500
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri May 10, 2019 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

as you do more forwards and concentrate on technique, you will learn to get the nose more off the wind, rake the mast to windward, and pull the rig with your back hand over your back shoulder (instead of just hucking) which will let the sail's center of effort be more in tune w/ your center of mass... this will give you a nice controlled rotation instead of hucking your mass around w/ a long lever that results in harsh landings. takes a lot of time and effort to dial in good forward technique. go to the gorge and watch Sean Aiken. he does some of the nicest non-wave forwards. very whippy and controlled and lands like a cat. when i'm on my game, i can get into a good groove and have those nice forwards, although i still don't plane out fully most of the time.

a good one from last fall (but no planing landing)

https://www.instagram.com/p/BpbQ06bnvPJ

josh stone also is a forward master. when I sailed w/ him in the gorge in 2004, he seemingly planed out of every forward. he also had a pretty downwind takeoff.

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manuel



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
Posts: 894

PostPosted: Wed May 15, 2019 9:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is it exactly. There's something about the long jump too. Trying to keep as much forward momentum as possible to have some remaining speed upon landing.

In my latest tries, I focused on going fast with a round wave fairly clean rather facing me. Also need decent power in the sail but I think initial speed takes precedence.

Fascinating really!

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