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Infinity 76 wing first thoughts
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1194

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Uphauling on a board like the Wizard 125 is a lot easier than figuring out how to keep the foil flying. I really don't care for uphauling short-nose boards where you have to stand with both feet behind the mast, but I could do it on the first or second try. Keeping the foil at a more or less constant height was much harder. It took me perhaps 5-6 sessions before I even started to believe I might manage to do that; 10 sessions before I got a few 500 meter runs in a session; and I still have to concentrate on it after ~25 sessions.

When you're uphauling, the feet do not need to be placed accurately, and shifting your weight between feet or heel to toe has no major impact. Even if you push the nose under water, you have a few seconds to correct it.

For flying, foot placement must be accurate, and any weight shifts must be minimal (and intentional). Even with a (more or less) normal balance, you'll over-correct when learning to foil, and the foil will go to far up or slam down. It takes a while to tone and slow down the movements. And that's assuming you manage to not move the sail, or sheet in or out. All these things have pretty little effect when windsurfing, but a much larger effect when foiling.

Foiling can probably be learned even if you have impaired balance, but it will need tons of perseverance, TOW, good conditions like steady wind and flat water, and easier gear (for example a 95 cm wide board).
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19162

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
Uphauling on a board like the Wizard 125 is a lot easier than figuring out how to keep the foil flying ... Keeping the foil at a more or less constant height was much harder. It took me perhaps 5-6 sessions before I even started to believe I might manage to do that;

Man, you and dlee are just full of encouragement, aren't you? Smile
Actually, I much prefer candor to sales pitches.

and he wrote wrote:
I really don't care for uphauling short-nose boards where you have to stand with both feet behind the mast.

That seems to be optional on the 125, according to advisers.

Aaaannnnd then he wrote:
it was 10 sessions before I got a few 500 meter runs in a session; and I still have to concentrate on it after ~25 sessions.

My first session saw some steady 100-yard rides, but a) that was a fluke, b) I hadn't gotten the memo that it might take longer, c) my initial setup -- "A" position and no straps at all -- simply clicked for me, and/or d) I do best powered to waterstart. I haven't even come close to that since then. Logging 25 days would take me years unless the weather changes a LOT next season. Sadly, the weeds will be worse next year, if that's possible.

Not one to give up easily, he also wrote:
When you're uphauling, the feet do not need to be placed accurately, and shifting your weight between feet or heel to toe has no major impact. Even if you push the nose under water, you have a few seconds to correct it.

First sentence makes sense, as our platform is 125 liters and 16 square feet damped by a 2- or 3-foot "fin" beneath it. Second sentence is biased, however, towards one who can stand on one foot with his hand a foot in front of his face for those few seconds ... on his living room floor. I wish!

Then he wrote:
For flying, foot placement must be accurate, and any weight shifts must be minimal (and intentional). You'll over-correct when learning to foil, and the foil will go to far up or slam down. It takes a while to tone and slow down the movements. And that's assuming you manage to not move the sail, or sheet in or out.

Maybe THAT's part of my problem. Just like my first day ever on a WSer in numerous whitecaps, I look as though I have a swarm of fire ants in my shorts. (Try THAT, Lee. That'll teach you how to dance!)

Then, to top it off, he wrote:
Foiling [with] impaired balance will need tons of perseverance, TOW, good conditions like steady wind and flat water, and easier gear (for example a 95 cm wide board).

Perseverance implies dedication. I'm not dedicated to foiling; it is just something to learn now and transition to when I can't WS any longer. This tells me I'd better find a way to extend my WS ... such as the big sail (a whopping 7.0) I recently bought and bigger boards (over 100 LITERS!)

Beginner-level foiling has so far been little more than extensive very hard work with almost no payoff AND it detracts from WSing. Strike 1, Strike 2.

Steady wind with flat water is very rare in the Gorge even in a good (thermally powered) year. This year (even more so than last year, which was pretty bad), my preferred part of the Gorge has seen primarily what I call "drive-bys" ... days on end of nothing, occasionally punctuated by bursts of sheer terror (like fighter pilots describe their combat missions). Most of the days that looked good on the charts had 500-1,000 yard wind shadows, so a LOT of good local sailors who drove out east based on the graphs were often very disappointed by reality. The three groups who spent the most time on the water were largely Gorge visitors cramming everything they could into a short vacation, local masochists (by my criteria) who will sail ANYTHING even if it means hours of slogging punctuated by moments of high-risk terror, and Corridor regulars accustomed to crappy conditions. (I used to be in that latter group, so that's neither a guess nor intended as disparagement.) Even some in the second group sometimes gave up and stood around on shore in street clothes, drooling over the huge sheep a kilometer away.

I ain't a visitor, am forced by reduced energy to cherry pick, have NEVER enjoyed slogging as much as some folks choose to do, and literally can't see when harsh chop is bouncing my head around. Because another significant injury due to winds averaging near 40 and gusting well over 50 could likely end my WSing for good, I no longer trust the drive-bys.

The river out here is too big to find much flat water if there's enough breeze to foil, let alone waterstart. Even when it requires a 7.5 to plane on a big board, the terrain is usually knee high with higher bumps and bigger gusts.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4480
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dancing as in CONTROLLED, precise, practiced, small perfectly placed IN BALANCED steps,

NOT wild, swinging spastic gyrations!
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2242
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Amigo,

The inside breakwater at 3 Mile is pretty flat all the time. It's not a huge
reach, but I've enjoyed many a day planing the flat water in there before
venturing into some monster swell outside on the river. Whenever I've
been there the wind is pretty steady inside the breakwater also. You might
give that a foiling try. It's not exactly close to you, but it's closer than the
Event Site, or Stevie for sure.

Just a thought,

-Craig

isobars wrote:

The river out here is too big to find much flat water if there's enough breeze to foil, let alone waterstart. Even when it requires a 7.5 to plane on a big board, the terrain is usually knee high with higher bumps and bigger gusts.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19162

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2019 1:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cgoudie1 wrote:
Hey Amigo,

The inside breakwater at 3 Mile is pretty flat all the time. ... It's not exactly close to you, but it's closer than the
Event Site, or Stevie for sure.

Just a thought

And a good one. It hadn't occurred to me, as I sail 3-mile very seldom. It's a few minutes closer than Roosevelt for me, for what that's worth. I used to sail there more often, but the best swell is up by Lorox, which is a long ways to swim/slog back from on a sinker when the wind drops.
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sa_al



Joined: 03 May 2014
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="kevinkan"]I use B position for the 76 (standard position)
I use C position for the 84 (pushes wing further forward)

I am 220 lbs using 84 with 48 back wing at position C with Flyer 7.0 on 10-14 mph days. Position C made a huge difference for my foiling improvement.
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sa_al



Joined: 03 May 2014
Posts: 4

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="LUCARO"]
isobars wrote:
I have no clue why front straps would aid pumping since my feet do not slip on the decking even in big, exaggerated, high-effort pumps.


I don't think having your front foot in the strap helps pumping,

I am using half straps only on the front position as I am in the beginning phase of learning foiling. Few times I fell in full straps and thought I was close to having serious injury when the board turns suddenly sideways. The halfstraps are available from Slingshot.
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justall



Joined: 30 Jul 2007
Posts: 403

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

salkan wrote:

I am using half straps ... The halfstraps are available from Slingshot.


This is the first I have heard about halfstraps. Are there posts on these relative to non-foil windsurfing? I searched but didn’t immediately find any posts, so may start one.

(Update). OK, I found some posts by searching for NSI’s name for halfstraps ... “hookers”. Guess they have in fact been around a while, with expected pros/cons for non-foil boards. A lot of stuff to weed through by searching for hookers, though ... zeesh.
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1194

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting about the half straps. I'll order some and try then out. I like the idea of being able to move the feet more easily, and no worries when falling. One of the reasons I am hesitant about using straps is that one of the first foilers I met had busted her knee in a fall in one of her first foil sessions. I had a few rather uncomfortable falls in the straps myself.

I also just installed a foil box on my FS board, and I'd have to use the front tuttle screw for the rear strap. Doable but a bit of a pain. The half strap would make things easier.
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grantmac017



Joined: 04 Aug 2016
Posts: 788

PostPosted: Wed Aug 21, 2019 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
Thanks for posting about the half straps. I'll order some and try then out. I like the idea of being able to move the feet more easily, and no worries when falling. One of the reasons I am hesitant about using straps is that one of the first foilers I met had busted her knee in a fall in one of her first foil sessions. I had a few rather uncomfortable falls in the straps myself.

I also just installed a foil box on my FS board, and I'd have to use the front tuttle screw for the rear strap. Doable but a bit of a pain. The half strap would make things easier.


What FS board? That's the direction I'm looking to go at the moment. Except with a set of tracks installed along with the PB.
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