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systemslib



Joined: 11 Sep 2016
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Also in the snow belt, for me xc skiing is best off season conditioning as it focuses on muscle core strength especially around the stomach and upper body and builds endurance. It also tends to produce improved balance with a cerebral focus on better form = better results. Both these areas translate over to sailboarding for me.
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dmilovich



Joined: 19 Jul 2009
Posts: 95

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 7:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Systemslib,

Just curious, are you XC skiing classic or skate? Both are great exercise, but work different muscles. Just wondering.

DM
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20060

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Usually, the first thing to go (fatigue) when on the water is my arms and grip, and this can be a big issue if overpowered. Hanging on in a few big gusts can drain the arms really fast.

Try a harness. Very Happy

Set up and used properly, we barely use our arms and grip between jibes. And once we get our jibes down, we barely exert much effort even in the jibes.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20060

PostPosted: Fri Feb 28, 2020 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dmilovich wrote:
Both are great exercise, but work different muscles.

Thus I'd do both. Similarly, when walking for exercise, I walk backwards much of the time for its many unique neuromuscular benefits, including breaking up the monotony. It's fun to see how smoothly I can spin on a dime to switch between forward and reverse without missing a beat in the music, too.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3853

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Iso said:

Quote:
Try a harness.

Set up and used properly, we barely use our arms and grip between jibes. And once we get our jibes down, we barely exert much effort even in the jibes.

As I said, fitness needs can vary from individual to individual. Try an 11.0 in 8-15 knots and see what happens when a gust of over 20 hits you. A harness is essentially worthless as the center of force in the sail changes radically. Actually, because of this, I no longer use my 11.0 and stick with my 9.2 on the light wind days.

The same thing applies to smaller sails in big gusts, but it's a bit easier to manage. However, harness lines can NEVER be balanced perfectly for a windy day at the lake where I live with winds from 5-25 over a 10 min. period. Just selecting a sail is a pain in the butt.

If you are only on sails of 6.0 or smaller, harness line balance in gusts is pretty much a non issue. For me, the least stressful conditions (physically) is in winds around 20 knots+ on a 6.0 or 5.2 and a 95L board at the Outer Banks.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3022

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Techno,
There is a solution to your problem. Run two sets of fixed harness lines on both sides of your boom. One short & one long. Set the short lines for when the adjustable outhaul is fully tight for upwind & then set the long lines for when the adjustable outhaul is fully loose for downwind. Both lines will slightly overlap but you will completely loose the issue of sail balance in big gusts.

Coachg
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 3853

PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the recommendation. I have seen the dual line set up by some racers.

I don't use the big sails and formula board much any more. When I raced (many years), I have adjustable lines for up and down wind runs, and with one position on the boom, it worked well. Adjustable outhauls as well on my five largest sails.

Nevertheless, wind gusts can change the center of power/effort in the sail, which will add some additional stress on the arms, even if the lines are well balanced, and I am maximizing the use of my harness. There are times when I can see a gust coming and will adjust the outhaul (flatten the sail) in anticipation to minimize the unbalancing of the sail when the gust hits.
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systemslib



Joined: 11 Sep 2016
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, classic for me. Not as fast but a bit more versatile for areas that are not groomed regularly or mediocre conditions. Even with classic I often will be double poling or semi skating up hills depending on snow conditions. Both styles work the whole body but it feels to me like skate is a little more leg oriented.

I find the core XC stomach/waist/lower back strengthening is what really helps to transition back to WS in spring since this can be an area of the body easily strained esp with the spring NW dominant winds that often harbor 15-20+- gusts.

dmilovich wrote:
Hi Systemslib,

Just curious, are you XC skiing classic or skate? Both are great exercise, but work different muscles. Just wondering.

DM
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20060

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't owned a sail this century that lets the draft drift even noticeably, let alone significantly, in gusts. Luck? Steady winds? Technique? Skill? No (except the latter two plus the confidence they impart really help); just comparative shopping. From 3.2 to 7.0, there's not a cam in the lot, and on my smallest two sails I had the loft use PVC for significantly greater gust absorption.

Caveats:

Sure, a couple of times per season I'll get flattened, but that's usually when I'm already rigged to plane in everything but the deepest lulls.

Even the 7.0 is desperation sailing. I have zero interest in anything bigger, even though it might double my TOW.

I don't watch for gusts when planing. They are so numerous, so unpredictable, often so brief, so prevalent, and sometimes invisible if they are not hitting the water that there's almost no point watching for them when freesailing. Besides, I'm more interested in watching and using the terrain than in the gusts.

I'm also not constrained by buoys, start and finish lines, the pack, rules, etc. I sail in whatever direction I choose at the moment, based on whim, windspeed, terrain, etc. Blasting downwind and/or pinching high very dramatically reduce the power of big sustained gusts.

And more recently, cherry picking due to impaired endurance encourages me to just walk away when things get dangerously gusty.

Board size and fin selection often matter as much as sail size on abnormally gusty/holey days.
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2371
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 11:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tend to agree from 3.2 to 6.2 drafts in modern sails are stable.
Also, NWs are very gust tolerant. But, I understand what Techno
is saying about big sails. I have an excellent 9.5
Sailworks Retro which handles gusts really well, but it requires some arms
to handle the draft shifts of the sail when tuned for max power (which is
typical tuning when using the 9.5.

Huge sails have a sort of Jekyll and Hyde feel (though immensely
better that the early 90s huge sails) for me (maybe a little like
older Porsches) it's all really high performance, until you're headed
backward into the ditch.

.02

-Craig

p.s. I haven't had a reason to ride my big gear for several years now as I've
swapped out all my Utah sailing for Gorge sailing.


isobars wrote:
I haven't owned a sail this century that lets the draft drift even noticeably, let alone significantly, in gusts. Luck? Steady winds? Technique? Skill? No (except the latter two plus the confidence they impart really help); just comparative shopping. From 3.2 to 7.0, there's not a cam in the lot, and on my smallest two sails I had the loft use PVC for significantly greater gust absorption.

Caveats:

Sure, a couple of times per season I'll get flattened, but that's usually when I'm already rigged to plane in everything but the deepest lulls.

Even the 7.0 is desperation sailing. I have zero interest in anything bigger, even though it might double my TOW.

I don't watch for gusts when planing. They are so numerous, so unpredictable, often so brief, so prevalent, and sometimes invisible if they are not hitting the water that there's almost no point watching for them when freesailing. Besides, I'm more interested in watching and using the terrain than in the gusts.

I'm also not constrained by buoys, start and finish lines, the pack, rules, etc. I sail in whatever direction I choose at the moment, based on whim, windspeed, terrain, etc. Blasting downwind and/or pinching high very dramatically reduce the power of big sustained gusts.

And more recently, cherry picking due to impaired endurance encourages me to just walk away when things get dangerously gusty.

Board size and fin selection often matter as much as sail size on abnormally gusty/holey days.
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