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Opinions on racey foils?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16182
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Race foils have indeed replaced formula sailing, and like in the formula days, people intent on racing and training for racing select a sail size that will keep them lit in the variable winds on the bay. So you can sail that way, and at least 4 of the Cal Cup crew were getting beat up on 7.0 sails in 30 knot winds at the last Cal Cup. I was on the bay on a 6.2 and a foil and it wasnít much fun.

Butófor those of us who no longer want to get beat up, or race, we can take the smallest sail we can get away with. Race foils in the hands of the best can go as fast as Formula Boards or slalom boards. I canít go that fast. But the advantage is that the velocity made good speed is better for a foil kit. Eric Christianson, a very good racer who finished very high in some gnarly nationals, spent a year racing formula against foil. Heís now on a foil.

The best thing for me about foiling is that you can still cruise at about 17-20 mph, but above the waves. Some folks routinely sail 20-30 miles, and sometimes go from Berkeley to the Golden Gate and back. When everything is working right and you are floating along going downwind, it gets quiet and its just like flying. Much easier on the body than either formula or slalom. Still fun after 43 years.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4984
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean better foilers than the top 10 Cal Cup racers?
I happen to rig next to 7 of them all the time.
The other 3, I rig next to only during race days.
And I am in the water when they practice.
None can stay at freeride speeds, which for me might be 2 mph slower overall than slalom board speeds.
Maybe you are a terrible slow windsurfer but good foiler.
I windsurf pretty well, and a terrible foiler for 90 days.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4984
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yup, Mac got it right.
Old age, breaking body's favor smaller sails than formula.
Eric was a perennial top 6 racer on Formula against other Formula, then against foils. Now a year in on foil, still top 6.
Not one foiler can stay near windsurf speed on a reach, close or broad.
Maybe they can pass windsurfers who are learning or riding wave gear in winds too light for their setup.
But foils do give up and downwind angles than freeride can't approach when normally powered. How important is that?
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willysp



Joined: 11 Jun 2013
Posts: 30
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimbo asked about whether foiling with racey foils in light wind in Florida will be faster than with his 76.

I think you should be faster with a racier foil (or at least that is my hope based on my research).

If you don't like to pump it might be a waste of time and money; but I realized even with my infinity 84 I am pumping like crazy in very light wind to take off. so it depends what you want to do: if you want to get flying early with a high aspect ratio foil you will need to pump but then you will have more top speed and better glide due to less drag compared to your i76.
and if you are sailing in truly light wind, you will not get away with a small sail (7 and under) neither with a 76 foil nor a racey/race foil you will need to rig big.

I hope I am right Smile
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16182
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Thu Jul 09, 2020 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or rig a bigger sail. Remember, fully battened sails properly downhauled are not as powerful as recreational sails. But they are faster and more stable. So my 6.2 works from 16 to 24 average wind speed. Iím pumping to get up at 16, and miserable at 25+. But of course at that point it is more the state of the water and the gustiness that determines whether or not you will have any fun.
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kmf



Joined: 02 Apr 2001
Posts: 503

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Get hold of Sailworks in Hood River, they have a large selection of foils available, and know about fast.

Kmf
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d0uglass



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 1275
Location: Bonita Springs, Florida

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey y'all,

I super appreciate the variety of comments and experienced perspectives shared here. Sounds like I WOULD go faster with a racey setup, but would give up some ease of use characteristics, and therefore it's hard to predict if I would actually find it more fun. Interesting about some of the Naish freeride foils being faster than the i76 but still with good freeride characteristics. What was the particular Naish model referred to again?

Maybe instead of going with a racier foil to match my formula board I'll go the other direction and get a more compact foil board to match my freeride foil.

-James

_________________
James' Blog: Windsurfing Equipment Size Calculator
http://jimbodouglass.blogspot.com/2010/11/updated-windsurf-calculator-online.html
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boardsurfr



Joined: 23 Aug 2001
Posts: 1246

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 2:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James, one thing you could consider is getting another Slingshot front wing. The Time Code 68 is a couple of knots faster than the i76. My best nautical mile average on it is 14 knots, vs. 12 knots on the i76. It feels smoother and easier to control in chop, too. The take off speed is perhaps a couple of knots higher, though, so either you need more wind or you must pump more. Nina has mostly stopped using the i76, and used either the i84 in light wind or the TC68 in more wind (15 mph+). She used a 90 l FS board with the i76 and TC 68. That was before she started the wing thing, now it's only the i84 (with a JP 7.0 SUP).

Main reason to consider this is price. You can get the Time Code 68 for about $300, a lot less than what you'd pay for a whole new setup.

I have also been thinking about a racier foil, but I don't think it would be a match for my old Warp 71 that I use for foiling. The Starboard GT-R seemed like a decent "in between" foil. But before buying a new board, I'll have to try the wing thing a few times. Many who try it get addicted, it seems.

If you get a racier foil, let us know what you think!
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LUCARO



Joined: 07 Dec 1997
Posts: 586

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boardsurfr wrote:
James, one thing you could consider is getting another Slingshot front wing. The Time Code 68 is a couple of knots faster than the i76. My best nautical mile average on it is 14 knots, vs. 12 knots on the i76. It feels smoother and easier to control in chop, too. The take off speed is perhaps a couple of knots higher, though, so either you need more wind or you must pump more. Nina has mostly stopped using the i76, and used either the i84 in light wind or the TC68 in more wind (15 mph+). She used a 90 l FS board with the i76 and TC 68. That was before she started the wing thing, now it's only the i84 (with a JP 7.0 SUP).



Good Idea. this is the beauty of the hoverglide system. I dabbled with faster foils early on with hoverglide. I had the warpspeed and the i65.

Speed is good esp if the water is flat, but I prefer the i76 as I will be up more consistently and I will make more of my gybes.

However, being able to experience different options to see what works best is good.
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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3059

PostPosted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

James,
The easy fix for you is a faster front wing with the obvious trade off of needing a bigger sail, more wind or more work.

I also have a formula board & when I first got into foiling I considered using that board. The reason I rejected that idea was because I no longer wanted to go down the racing path; I wanted ease of use & transport. My formula board requires me to use my van or strap the board to the top of my Prius. My 73 cm wide foil board fits easily inside my Prius so it is much easier now to grab a foil session on the way home from work without having to commute in my van.

Coachg
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