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Speed sailing in Norcal
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ebb effect at Crissy, lots of sailors thought this flat spot create drag via suction effect, and preferred light ripples for speed sailing.
Me, I dunno...
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The old speed ditch at Marina Bay in front of the Ford Plant.
Best access when a bit of in the wind.
Another spot I'm not sold on, but looks great on paper.
Rod & Gun upwind of the launch too.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then add Larkspur coming down off the Montessori School for flat water on S winds.
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 16048
Location: Berkeley, California

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 11:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dvCali wrote:
meyer wrote:
The way I see it, windsurfing is more fun when you are going fast!

Main reason I am so lukewarm about foiling ... a lot of trouble to go 10 knots slower ...


Well, yes and no. My top speed on a slalom board was over 30 mph, and I havenít come close to that on a foil. But the slalom board beat up my knees in one direction. Foiling takes me cruising to Treasure Island way faster than either a formula board or a slalom board because the upwind angle is better and because I can sustain a speed over 17 mph. Velocity made good and floating over the water are definitely better on foil.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1211

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 2:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mac wrote:
dvCali wrote:
meyer wrote:
The way I see it, windsurfing is more fun when you are going fast!

Main reason I am so lukewarm about foiling ... a lot of trouble to go 10 knots slower ...


Well, yes and no. My top speed on a slalom board was over 30 mph, and I havenít come close to that on a foil. But the slalom board beat up my knees in one direction. Foiling takes me cruising to Treasure Island way faster than either a formula board or a slalom board because the upwind angle is better and because I can sustain a speed over 17 mph. Velocity made good and floating over the water are definitely better on foil.


30 mph is about 26 knots, it is kind of slow ... but you might be right if you put in the equation a lot of upwind. However for pure speed there is no competition. On a foil Antoine Albeau did 30.76 knots on the nautical mile at last summer Prince of Speed. It looks impressive before one notices that in the same conditions he did 43.01 knots on the nautical mail on a regular windsurf ...
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Mac's "30mph" is incredibly fast for a speed run at Berleley.
As you know, Berkeley is located at the very end of an 11 mile fetch of windswell.
Refraction from the shore and boat wakes from odd directions constantly cross your fastest path, usually outgoing away from the Lordships and downwind toward Emeryville shore.
The windspeed and wind direction also changes as you run broad for your best time, as there is always the "Ashby Hole" right about when your top speed is attained, and a wind shift from the shallow Sholes upwind of you.
Refraction waves are constantly changing as the shoreline downwind goes from beach to point to seawall, back to beach and get broken again by Emery Point.
Past there is clear beach again, but now the wind get's chopped by Emery Park and those 5 story buildings in Emeryville.
The changing wind and water makes a real tough challenge to post fast GPS times at Berkeley.
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dvCali



Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1211

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dllee wrote:
I think Mac's "30mph" is incredibly fast for a speed run at Berleley.
As you know, Berkeley is located at the very end of an 11 mile fetch of windswell.
Refraction from the shore and boat wakes from odd directions constantly cross your fastest path, usually outgoing away from the Lordships and downwind toward Emeryville shore.
The windspeed and wind direction also changes as you run broad for your best time, as there is always the "Ashby Hole" right about when your top speed is attained, and a wind shift from the shallow Sholes upwind of you.
Refraction waves are constantly changing as the shoreline downwind goes from beach to point to seawall, back to beach and get broken again by Emery Point.
Past there is clear beach again, but now the wind get's chopped by Emery Park and those 5 story buildings in Emeryville.
The changing wind and water makes a real tough challenge to post fast GPS times at Berkeley.

Did not mean to question skill. I am just saying that speed differences are already tight in the Bay Area, with top sailors (I am not counting myself among them!) just above the 30 knots barrier because of the water conditions. But if you lower the bar into the 25 knots range a racing foil is not that far away ... or maybe any foil going upwind from Berkeley to TI!
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really?
Mac is one of the faster foilers among the racers.
Yes, he is old, and possibly gun shy, but he IS 210 lbs., 6'3", uses 100 fuze, 850sq cm 100 cm wide racing wing.
Boat speed is not one of his problems.
But.....NO foiler around here can foil at windsurf freeride speeds without experiencing major explosions.....so the smart windfoil racers stick to upwind and downwind sailing and avoid tight broad reaches.
Two different animals!
As you quoted, there is still a huge gap between ws and foil speeds.
But I guess AA is promoting a foil attempt into the very highest speeds.
Maybe he is planning to use a 250 sq cm front wing for his 250 lbs ready to hit the water.
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 4946
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Upwind, maybe 16-22 mph max.
Downwind...need flat water, small wing, and shorter fuze.
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743

PostPosted: Wed Nov 18, 2020 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best flat water I have ever sailed on is the channel behind Doran Beach in Bodega Bay. Not sure of the tide, but it happens when the mud flats are exposed. Flat as a pool table.
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