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Is it time to bite the bullet and try kiting (again)?
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Wed Jun 07, 2023 6:28 pm    Post subject: Is it time to bite the bullet and try kiting (again)? Reply with quote

No amount of gym time can fully compensate for the impacts of cancer drugs (including zero testosterone, decimated mitochondria, loss of muscle mass and strength, chemobrain) and Meniere’s disease on windsurfing. I’m not yet ready for golf or burial. Foiling doesn’t seem to be the answer, as it requires balance I haven’t had for years. With the Gorge’s allegedly near-permanent trend towards nukin’ or pukin’, my sailing time has decreased by over 90%. I need another sailing option.

Everybody says kitesurfing requires less effort. A guy told me after I came ashore on a big day several years ago, “You know, kiting is far easier than windsurfing on our old bodies. You should switch. I did.”
I asked him how old he was.
“53”.
The look on his face was priceless when I said, “I’m 73”.

If my health hassles will allow, maybe it’s time for KSing. First, a few questions.

1. How far along in the learning curve does it take to stop watching the kite and focus on sailing?

2. How long does it normally take to get good at slashing swell powered up with a kite (that’s why I’m out there)?

3. How does jibing a kite board compare to jibing a WS board? (The losses of tactile feedback when luffed and visual reference when a sail crosses my line of sight leave me reeling.)

4. Does KSing inherently demand less of one’s legs than the same level of WSing?

5. How much of a PITA is relaunching a modern kite (or swimming the danged thing to shore a km away) after it falls from the sky?

6. “Just try it and see how it goes”, you say? Been there, done that, with WS foiling. Does KSing require less balance than foiling?

OOPS! Just remembered … when the weeds began covering the surface at my usual launch a few years ago, the KSers left because “it’s too dangerous. When our lines dip into the weeds and fly up again, a big ball of milfoil slides down to block our chicken loops.”

7. “Sail somewhere else”, you say? Medical hassles have cut my Columbia River launch site options by literally 95%.

“Try kayaking”, you say? I’m ahead of you. Kayaking in near-nuke conditions is fun and challenging but not the same rush as sailing.

DAMN, but I’m glad I retired 35 years ago to sail full time. I never got my fill, but it surely validates that decision.
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exhibitpro



Joined: 17 Jun 1998
Posts: 47

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Isobars
1. Learning curve is steep, but, spend a lot of time on land flying first a trainer and then a real kite. Fly until you are sick of it and then fly it some more. Be able to fly it with one hand in both directions. Learn how to self launch and self land. Flying the kite is 80% of it.

2. Riding swell comes easy and quick as long as you can fly the kite well (see #1 above).

3. I went to a surfboard (directional) as soon as I could ride and turn riding both heal side and toe side on a twin tip. No sense waisting time on a twin tip when a surfboard is what you want. Much easier to learn to jibe on a surfboard kiting than windsurfing. I use straps because I like to jump and it tells me where my feet should go without looking.

4. My experience is that I use my legs more kiting than windsurfing.

5. Modern kites are easy to relaunch from the water (learn how to self launch on land first). Swimming in is easier when using the kite as a sail. Lots of content on line to show technique.

6. I have vertigo issues and have no problem kiting or windsurfing.

7. Kiting does require a lot more room to launch. This can be an issue. Kelp etc. can also be an issue.

I have windsurfed for 40 years and still do when I come to the gorge. I started kiting 8 years ago and I am addicted. I've never tried heroin but I think it's like heroin so if you're not ready for that type of commitment don't try it...

Good luck!
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dllee



Joined: 03 Jul 2009
Posts: 5328
Location: East Bay

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Windsurf, windsurf foil, wingfoil, surf, waterskin......
You KNOW everything depends how hard you push it, the conditions you go out in, and where you go out.
Flats all around, light steady wind, no swells, is safest and easiest on your body. AND BORING!
Rough, windy, narrow, gusty, huge waves is totally exciting.
Don't matter if you're piloting a battleship or a skimmers, it's YOU, not your gear.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 1:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not a kiter, but I've watched them closely for years. It's your #5 question that will most likely be your biggest problem to overcome. It's not like waterstarting or uphauling when windsurfing, and if the wind suddenly dies and your're down, you're cooked. I can't tell you how many times I've seen the Coast Guard come to the rescue of downed kiters. Add your current flow issues on the river, and things can work greatly against you.

Lastly, ask yourself whether you really want to deal with all the lines. Frankly, it's always been a no-go for me.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2023 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good, useful comments so far, guys. Keep 'em coming and I'll dig into them soon.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1196
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

RE #5 relaunching a modern kite is really easy - and I'm a beginner.
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capetonian



Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1196
Location: Florida

PostPosted: Mon Jun 19, 2023 12:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

#6 I am also a beginner on the windsurf foil and kiting takes way less balance than foiling.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sat Jun 24, 2023 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Our windiest week in a LONG time has ended, so here we go …

Re Exibitpro’s comments:
1. That concurs with the first kiting lesson I took many years ago, which significantly blunted my enthusiasm. I’d rather play than work.

2. Just riding swell and trying to tear it up are very different things to me. Considering how few kiters (as in none, where I sail) do the latter, it must require a great deal of time, practice, and expertise.

3. Good tip.

4. Uh, oh (but not surprising). The permanent impact of my cancer meds hits leg strength and endurance the hardest.

5. That’s encouraging, especially since my initial lessons preceded modern designs.

6. On the vertigo: if you use Melatonin, try a total break for a week. It caused 95% of my constant falls on land. Still, when my sail crosses my field of vision in jibes or I look up at my sail on a reach, I’m probably going down.

7. I can find or make launch room, but the weeds have dramatically curtailed midsummer kiting at my favored site. Weed fins solve the problem with no downside, but a basketball-sized clump of milfoil covering a kite’s bat-belt (what IS all that sheeite kiters strap around their waists?) is a kitemare waiting to happen.

“If you're not ready for that type of commitment don't try it“ … It’s not so much the commitment that worries me but rather my remaining life span. One of these years my oncologists’ pessimistic imminent prognoses may actually come true, and I’d be PISSED if I had passed up a perfectly good year at a sport I’m good at (and still learning) for struggling through a year of struggling with a new sport. Old dogs and all that.

I agree with almost everything dLee said, both on the water and in the gym. HOWEVER, if my one-season wind-foiling trial is any indication, effort alone may not adequately reward a major switch. My first day on a foil was very encouraging, and friends were impressed how well it went, but every subsequent day was downhill not even counting the I&*^(&^%@$#& weeds. I’ve watched too many kiters lollyagging along with one arm dangling or stifling a yawn, looking bored and boring as hell. One guy foiled for hours a couple of days ago on perfectly flat water; I’d rather stub a toe on some rebar. I want INTENSITY in my sports. I know that’s up to the rider, but (successful) intensity requires TOW and skill development that eat up whole seasons.

Swchandler’s observation about kiters stuck in lulls is a biggie. Just two days ago a sudden complete lull dropped several kites and sails into the water, and the windsurfers swam their gear in much more easily. (Fortunately, the current where I sail is normally imperceptible.)

BIG agreement with Chandler on the hassle with lines. I don’t do Rubik’s cubes, and I don’t *^#&*@%^ with knots that shouldn’t be there. A bird’s nest of lines, or even fat ropes, belongs in a dumpster, IMO. Before the weed infestation discouraged kiting at my usual launch, the lawn was usually littered with kite lines.

Capetonian’s comments about relaunching a modern kite and the balance challenges of kiting vs foiling go in the plus column.

I talked with several stoked ex-windsurfers at the river these past few days and picked up on more factors to consider:

Wing thing converts are reportedly experiencing core and shoulder injuries from getting torqued into contortions and forces our bodies aren’t designed for.

About popping from kneeling to standing with wings … It takes me several seconds, a lot of work, and sometimes a fall just to get to my feet from sitting on dry ground. I got completely lost in a winger’s detailed 8-step description of all the hand- and foot-work involved in getting onto his board, into a kneel, then to his feet. My days of vaulting in one swift motion from neck deep to standing on WSing boards preparatory to uphauling are long gone.

Yes, my concerns are increasingly conservative and self-protective. At my age, they have to be, as every session or season could be my last … one more downside to sacrificing a year of WSing to learn kiting.

The kiters I see carving the swell do it gently, scribing arcs on the swell rather than attacking it with a vengeance and throwing water over their heads. If I don’t have to drop into the water to get my breath back fairly often, I know I’m not sailing hard enough. Extensive full-effort HIIT workouts aren’t enough.

I like the air kiters get and their gentle landings, but I’m not sure how wise that would be given that another injury could end my sailing. My worst injury — unless you count my broken back from flying a snowmobile into a snow-coated concrete culvert — was not from my thousands of crashes racing motorcycles; it was from misjudging my altitude when landing big air on a WSer.

The typical Gorge winds for at least the last 10 years have mostly been awfully strong or awfully weak for learning a new windsport. I really miss those once-frequent long, steady 4.2 or 5.0 days.

Thanks again for the advice, experience, and insights, guys.
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Gwarn



Joined: 22 May 2013
Posts: 124
Location: SF

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 10:24 am    Post subject: LIVE IT DON'T TALK ABOUT IT..... Reply with quote

Isobars
If I where you I would spend the winter in Baja you'll get all the 5.0 days you can handle and more. Or you can ride a twin tip with all the other kite joeys.

You'r getting older and need to go where its WARM and WINDY to get as many days as you can so load the van up and go. There is plenty of swell to crave on down south.

Live it don't talk about before you're pushing up the daisies.....
Arrow
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Sun Jun 25, 2023 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good idea, Gwarn, especially the part about getting it while I still can. HOWEVER:

Over the last few decades, I’ve researched Baja in about 15 magazine articles and in conversations with dozens of Baja fans face to face. I haven’t gone because:

The vast majority of those accounts boil down to “We didn’t get much wind, but we made up for it with cerveza.” Baja's a LOOOONG ways to drive for beer, and “party” has never been a verb in my lexicon.

Another indicator is decades with Canadian friends on their way home from Baja spending a few weeks in the Gorge. Their ratio of beach chairs to TOW is at least 10:1 even on perfect days.

Far too many of my road and plane trips to “windy” locations have been skunks. Months at Corpus Christi in prime wind seasons spread over several years produced near-bupkis, even when I had 7.5s and longboards. Bailed due to lack of wind halfway through a FREE 6-week gear test trip on Maui. Many forecast-driven 375-mile round trips to NM lakes por nada (VERY windy place but tough to forecast). MANY Oregon coast trips garnered maybe three adequate days. Chasing wind via van @ 17,000 miles per year snagged a ton of sailing, but I’m not up to that any more (and speed limits are actually enforced now).

44 years of WSing, especially considering North Padre Island’s overblown reputation and thousands of sessions on the Columbia have made it clear that most people’s “5.0” is 6.X for me.

I’m still trying to assess the evening (sleeping) temps at popular Baja spots. One buddy says he has to put on a sweater in the evenings at La Ventana (but he doesn’t use his AC at home even when it tops 100 degrees, and he sleeps fine in the 80s.)

My interest in visiting Mexico (or any big American city) again diminishes every time I watch the news.
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