Political rant - part deux...if you dare

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

I care so little about that angle that it hadn't even occurred to me. I'm infinitely more interested in moving forward than in finger-pointing. If the Congress would spend 20% of the time, words, and effort it spends trying to Blame Bush on actually doing its JOB, it might actually impress someone besides its Bush-hating sycophants. A party or candidate that whines and levels blame about the past more than it provides forward-looking solutions, that proposes the biggest tax increase in history, and that vows to use the police to force our health care purchasing choices ... is fooling no one by proclaiming a "Progressive" label for itself.

windoggi · Joined: 22 Feb 2002 Posts: 2743

isobars · Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935

jp5 · Joined: 19 May 1998 Posts: 3394 Location: OnUr6

"(Didja hear today that Obama wants to eliminate private ownership of handguns?)"

Yeah, he's not the first to say that and won't be the last.

windoggi · Joined: 22 Feb 2002 Posts: 2743

[quote
Without even worrying who "they" refers to[/quote]

The "they" are who Ike warned us about. That old Military Industrial Complex.

mrjoe · Joined: 07 May 1998 Posts: 2

The thread continues to be truly entertaining and represents many well reasoned positions. Checking in every few days always sparks so many thoughts, thanks to all for that!

Since last posting here, a couple of books have shed much real light on both sides of many of the arguments presented here for me. Interestingly, they are both written by two of the preeminent economists of our times, but their views beyond pure economics are nearly as insightful. Alan Greenspan and Paul Krugman come from very different idealogical places, but they are honest people first and convey with impeccable logic the reasons why they believe what they do.

Krugman explains vividly the history behind exactly what Isobars espouses, up to and including the numerous tactics and argumentative positions displayed on this thread and terms it 'movement conservatism.' It nails precisely the moral bankruptcy of this movement and provides numerous quotes from the likes of William Kristol and his father Irving as well as William F. Buckley and many others exposing the consistent dishonesty that is just part of their philosophical underpinnings.

Among his theses are that that from their radical beginnings in the 50's (when Eisenhower said of them, "Their number is negligible and they are stupid"), racism has been a core tenet of their beliefs and continues to this day unabated though slyly encoded in their language. It explains so much and connecting those dots was never before clear to me. Reagan's first campaign stop in his 1980 bid for the presidency was in Philadelphia, MS, site of the famous murder of three civil rights workers. But their rise to hold the most important offices in the land has been both remarkable and tragic for this country and they need to be more widely understood by the populace. This is one of the best and most important books on this timely subject and will enlighten our plight (and solutions to it) like few others.

Greenspan is an avowed Libertarian, but his understanding of the world that we live in needs to be heard. A more impressive thinker would be difficult to find, but there is a lack of humanity implicit in many of his views possibly as a result of his lofty position in the world for such a long career. His views on each of the presidents he has worked with (and especially the clever way he describes shortcomings of each of them) is worth the price of the book alone. His evaluations or all the advanced countries in the world also make for fascinating reading.

Now Iso, you've posted roughly 20% of the total postings on this thread and much more than that in terms of words. Your positions are clear. This posting is not directed toward you, but rather to the others here who have been so impressive in expressing their cogent and often compassionate view of the world and others less fortunate who share it with them. Your reply is of little concern at this point, and truth be told, the others here have done quite a good job of exposing you. All that said, I still wish you great wind and happy sailing.

For the rest, you may be noticing that there is getting to be more public conversation about shrinking the frankly embarrassing economic inequality that America is suffering from now. The mood of the country is changing and the corruption so prevalent in the current administration is opening the way for some grand changes to finally be made here at home.

The most striking example of why this is so absolutely doable is that simply rolling back the Bush tax cuts for those with incomes over $200,000 would provide sufficient funds to implement Universal Health Care in the U.S. Despite the predictably adamant reactions from the usual suspects, this is simply the right thing to do for this country, the only wealthy nation which does not have it today. This is the kind of thinking that America should in reality be pursuing for the good of all. This will be a step that we can be proud of as a people for a long time to come, just as with other programs like Social Security which are loved by the people of this country. A new New Deal with another forty years of prosperity for all is worth getting behind for the good of all.

Please read Krugman's book - sorry for the rant, but it has been a long time coming. Merry Christmas to all!

jp5 · Joined: 19 May 1998 Posts: 3394 Location: OnUr6

"The mood of the country is changing and the corruption so prevalent in the current administration is opening the way for some grand changes to finally be made here at home. "

And who will make these changes? Hillary??? Does anyone here truely believe that she is not as corrupt and dishonest as all the rest?

"The most striking example of why this is so absolutely doable is that simply rolling back the Bush tax cuts for those with incomes over $200,000..."

This and protecting jobs in the U.S. from being offshored.

Universal Healthcare should be a stop gap measure for those who have no other recourse. I don't want DMV style treatment when I go to my doctor. BTW, what is Medicaid if not goverment subsidised healthcare??

You write well MrJoe.

mac · Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2007 11:25 am Post subject:

Tough week for Isobars. He argued that saving the water boarding tapes meant “Death sentence for them and their families.” Is that why Bush and Chaney had Scooter out Valerie Plame? He asked us all to define torture. Here comes John Kiriakou, the CIA agent who captured Al Queda leaders in Pakistan in 2002, who says that waterboarding is torture and should never be used again because “We Americans are better than that.” I agree. His attorney at Justice, Jack Goldsmith acknowledges that Justice ok’d the harsh methods.

Isobars argued that global warming is a hoax (and called me and PBS liars when I quoted his only scientist, Singer, in an interview.) Here comes the American Geophysical Union’s annual meeting, and Donald Perovich, with the Army’s Cold Research and Engineering Laboratory saying about : ..the Arctic sea ice …I may see it gone in my own lifetime—and I’m past 50.” Similar concerns expressed by NASA scientists. What I can’t understand is how you can get so many reputable scientists to join a left wing conspiracy.

The one ironic note is that when we invaded Iraq, Iran was far more of a threat. It is unfortunate that we've so spent our military in Iraq, and abandoned the reconstruction of Afghanistan that might have better positioned use to pressure Iran. Our bad intelligence on Iran, and poor or falsified intelligence on Iraq argues for better intelligence. Who would do that if not the government? If the government can, and must do intelligence and military (including big money for Haliburton), I don’t understand how education is socialism but militarism is not. Maybe I’m just slow, or don’t watch Fox enough.