Political rant part tres - Michael Moore's Sicko

[georgerocks]

Warning - post contains paraphrasing.

My sister forced me to sit through Michael Moore's Sicko last night. What a communist. The man has got to be lying. Like when he gets Canadians to say that their health care is better than ours, that their wait for treatment is only 30 - 45 minutes, that they are healthier than us because preventatvie care is encouraged and free so no excuse to not get that annual check up. Or when he gets a British reporter to say that the poorest person in Britain gets as good healthcare as the richest people in the US. That has got to be garbage. And those Americans living in France that he interviewed saying that the French health care system is better than ours. How unpatriotic. Revoke their citizenship now! (Though the idea of 5 weeks holiday every year is more appealing than my 2 weeks) And the comments from the French doctor that they have an obligation to care for the poor. Ugh. When I buy a Rolls I am going to put a sticker on the back that says "F..k the poor". Yes baby, once I finish grad school I am headed straight for PE and 15% tax rates.

He never mentioned what the tax rates in the UK or France or Norway are so that they can have their universal healthecare. Can anyone tell me what they are compared to my 35% federal and 9.3% state tax. They most probably pay double that.

And then he goes to Cuba...Cuba, and they pay $0.05 for drugs that cost $120 here. Obviously the reason it is so expensive here is because we are forced to subsidize the Cubans and the British and the French. And how did he get the British doctor to say that he gets paid more the healthier he makes his patients? Or that 31 cents out of every $1 spend on healthcare here in the US goes towards the administration rather than actual healthcare. Imagine how much worse it will be if we let the government touch our healthcare.

If he was stirring for a reaction, he certainly got one from me. Do me a favor and watch it and then tell me how to refute it. It is all lies, lies I tell you.

He ended the movie with the statement that the US is the only country in the western world without universal healthcare. That has got to be BS. Please tell me that is not true. They can't all be as stupid as Britain, Canada, France, etc.

Another thing, if he is so worried about healthcare, he should lose some weight.

Let me ask you this Michael Moore, why do people still want to come to America if it is so horrible here. Send all the illegal immigrants to France rather.

OK so I am frothing at the mouth like Isobars, but truly, what is a good Republican boy to do?

[fearnobeer]

Like most liberals, Moore takes facts and distorts them to fit his argument. However I have heard a few good things about healthcare in France from Americans who became sick over there and saught treatment. From what I hear the cost of care is quite a bit less than here and the quality just as good. Not having had the experience myself I can't say for sure.

One thing though, with some exception, American healthcare insurance companies are publiclly traded for profit enterprises with all the pitfalls therein. They are trying to regulate the cost of treatment, but not to make it more affordable for you and I. They want to make more profit. Some of the Blue Cross companies outside of California are still non-profit. Personally I think all Healthcare insurance companies should be non-profit, having worked for both.

[FredBGG]

I have lived and worked in Europe and here in the US.
I can assure you that our healthcare here in the US is far inferior to what is offered in Europe.
I am lucky to be insured through the Art Directors guild and have the Motion Picture Health Plan, one of the best in the country. However compared to the coverage I recieved in Europe it is full of holes.
As far as taxes go I did pay slightly more taxes in Europe....About 5% more, however the savings when it came to healthcare, college, car inscurance, housing etc we far in excess of the exta 5%.
Incidently college, including gwetting a Medical degree is practically free in Italy, France and Germany.
As for the profit making in the health care industry... here in the USA it is rampant profiteering. You only have to do a quick search of goverment records to see how much pharmaceutical and hospital companies here have had to pay to settle CRIMINAL convictions.
In Europe there is plenty of profit to be made in the health care field.
It is made through luxury additional services that are beyond the essentials.

Cheers

Fred

[jpf18]

Like FredBGG I've lived in Europe (Germany) and the States (live here now) and I am with FredBGG here.
Yes MM is whipping up a story to make a point. But that doesn't take away from the point he's making. Yes you DO pay significant higher taxes in Europe (income, 19% sales (ouch)), but you get tangible benefits in return. I've only come to appreciate it since I moved here. I live in VA, and state and local government are short of abandoning transportation and education. No funds here so it's mostly just pluggin pot holes. I can see it first hand and what needs to be done. Pathetic waiting for bridges to collaps. Health care fits the same mold plus big profiteering from big pharma.

[madspaniard]

[beallmd]

there is a saying in canada- the healthcare is great until you get sick! Did the above people develop a SERIOUS illness requiring the latest radiology, surgery and intensive care available. Why do the rich from around the world come HERE for healthcare, especially the leaders and their families from France and Canada for instance. MD Anderson, the greatest cancer care in the world period. Mayo Clinic, the greatest diagnostic center in the world period. Harvard, Yale and Johns Hopkins the gretest research facilities in the world period. I could go on but why bother, just head on over to Britain or Canada or Germany where PRIVATE health care options are breaking out; but the folks there with money just jump on their Jet for the USA. Or better yet; go to Cuba as I'm sure Micheal Moore would, if he becomes the Sicko and requires heart surgery. He is a rich arrogant phony who would go for the best Healthcare for his heart or whatever in the USA in a second and pay cash for it from all the money he's made from suckers in the USA.

[swchandler]

Looks like our initial poster here is another selfish ideologue of sorts that's singing to the moon.

Hey, I've always had full healthcare, but believe me, it costs a premium, especially if you have existing health issues like I do. You know, there are many folks out there that are being denied healthcare in light of their current health issues. A sad state of affairs.

Because of the irresponsible situation here in the US, many folks aren't insured, and that just can't be right. The idea that our healthcare situation here is correct and without fault, and especially considering it's an exclusive product to be used only by the folks that can pay the high rates, is an incredibly foolish argument. A pandemic of major proportions, particulary if originating from the uninsured segment of society, could become a disaster that would make Katrina seem like a minor event.

Moreover, the idea that the government is our enemy is a totally specious argument. Careful investment, management and vision on a scale only the government can provide, doesn't have to be a poor investment. Life, well being, and security costs money in today's world, no doubt about that, but a prudent and well targeted investment strategy is so paramount in ultimately achieving better world. An unbridled capitalism doesn't assure that things make sense and can achieve optimum outcomes. If profit is the primary and principle motivation, the weaknesses can easily be laid bare.

Just to be real clear, I'm not really talking about getting independently rich here. Some things in life just have to have more meaning and impact.

[beallmd]

Using a lot of big words and waxing on eloguently-and your model for this friendly loving helpful governmant is what? the IRS? Medicaid or medicare with fraud, abuse and waste rampant? The Postal service-probably the best run government program; do you want to stand in line at a cold building with limited hours and a bored uninterested staff? How about the VA? Worked in the Indian health service-is that what you have in mind for all of us? In Canada and Britain they are limiting care, there are waiting times measured in weeks to months to see a CANCER specialist or get a CT or MRI scan even in life threatening situations; is this what you have in mind for us? America has already rejected government run healthcare bigtime-Hiliarycare went down as a total failure. But we just need to INVEST in our government and trust it?

[lfsk]

Michael Moore advertises himself as a documentarian, but all he really is, is a propagandist. He completely makes an ass of himself with this bit of trash. You could hear them laughing in scorn when he tries to sell the idea that the average Cuban gets decent health care. The only Cubans that get any kind of care there are Castro and his cronies. The other poor souls who live there are dropping like flies due to the lack of sanitary conditions and lack of supplies.

I can't speak to the healthcare in Europe, but I do know that the wait for an MRI, a simple MRI, which here, even at Kaiser, is only a matter of days or even hours if its emergent, to a week or 2 if elective, in Canada is months and months! Is this what you liberals want? Then go to Canada, or Cuba for your care.

I do agree there are parts of our system that are broken, but we still have the best health care in the world!!

[mac]

I found Sicko offensive, even if I tend to agree with Michael Moore's politics. It is symptomatic of the problems in governing--there is no tolerance for the complexity of our issues, and for either a moderate view or the middle. Moore is a polemicist, and careless with the truth for political aim. In that way, he is no different than Karl Rove, and just as objectionable.

The film also obscures the actual complications of potential solutions and real world political obstacles. We do now, in fact, provide care for the poor--in emergency rooms. It's not very good, and it could be much cheaper, especially if we focussed on preventive care. But getting there from here is difficult, if not impossible. Brian Mulroney, former Prime Minister of Canada, I believe, came to San Francisco to speak at the Commonewealth Club, and was asked about Canadian Health Care. He said two things that resonated with me. First, he said that it was probably impossible for America to adopt a Canadian style health care system because the systems in the two countries have evolved in different manners, and reflect different cultures. Second, he said that it was an element of his cultural and ethical values that he should get the same health care as any other citizen of his country. Now I can't imagine George Bush---or any of the Democrats or Republicans in Congress---really feeling that way at the core of their values. Some people are well served by the system we have, others make lots of money from that system. Neither is willing to drop those advantages for a more egalitarian system. Unless there are some core values that we share, or a film maker can make a credible argument that we can have a system that is better than the emergency care system we now have (and possibly cheaper), change will be impossible. Having a film maker with no credibility make a simplistic argument doesn't advance the truly difficult debate at all.

Finally, be very scared of Hillary Clinton's ties to big pharma. She is gathering money from sources that she used to scare, and has made her peace with the medical establishment. She, and most of the candidates, are the representatives of the status quo, not of change. While I favor evolutionary, not revolutionary, change, I am very leary of the candidates of power and status quo. Bribing big business is not fundamentally better than scaring the general populace.