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ShreddinEd
Joined: 27 Mar 1994
Posts: 172
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 Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| carl wrote: | | edscott wrote: | Wow, Wardog and Mike Fick posting in the same thread again. This must be rec.windsurfing circa 2003. Someone let me know when the flame war begins so I can tune back in. And who will be the first to leave? Will it be Wardog and his sock puppet this time, or will the heat get too much for Mike and he'll take his military pension and go home. I can't wait to see how this all turns out!
This is almost as exciting as when Sonny & Cher got back together again on the Letterman show.
Kisses all! |
Need to revise your comment Ed,
I recall that "Moondawg" is Wardog's handle.
It's "Windoggie" posting on this thread and he is a bay area sailor. |
No need to revise my comment. Both individuals I mentioned have posted in this thread if you take the time to read the entire thread. I never mentioned Windoggie. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:46 pm Post subject: |
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| edscott wrote: | | Wow, Wardog and Mike Fick posting in the same thread again. This must be rec.windsurfing circa 2003. Someone let me know when the flame war begins so I can tune back in. And who will be the first to leave? Will it be Wardog and his sock puppet this time, or will the heat get too much for Mike and he'll take his military pension and go home. |
Stirrin' the pot a little, are we, Ed? 
Wardog should be less of a flame threat here, Ed, if the moderators do their job. And since a quick scan of 10 or 20 thousand of my posts will show that I’ve never engaged in flame wars (baseless personal attacks) beyond three or four well-deserved sentences in my online history, there’ s no threat here. This group also seems to have more backbone, so it’s likely to exert more peer pressure if he starts up again.
As I explained in great detail when I left that other group, heat had nothing to do with my departure. I simply don’t want to be part of a group I cannot respect.
Besides, Warren is smart, articulate, fun, and funny when he's on topic and factual. I have zero quarrel with that even if our ideologies differ.
I think it's funny -- and utterly baffling -- how many of you are bothered by my pension.
\m/ |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: |
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| isobars wrote: |
I think it's funny -- and utterly baffling -- how many of you are bothered by my pension.
\m/ |
I think what it is, with all due respect, is that you come accross as being strongly against gummint handout and handholding programs, yet you receive a pension from the biggest gummint program out there...Lifer Millitary.
But what about the sock puppet??? |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:11 pm Post subject: |
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| windoggie wrote: | | isobars wrote: |
I think it's funny -- and utterly baffling -- how many of you are bothered by my pension.
\m/ |
I think what it is, with all due respect, is that you come accross as being strongly against gummint handout and handholding programs, yet you receive a pension from the biggest gummint program out there...Lifer Millitary.
But what about the sock puppet??? |
I think it's funny -- and utterly baffling -- how many of you are bothered by my pension. \m/[/quote]
I think what it is, with all due respect, is that you come accross as being strongly against gummint handout and handholding programs, yet you receive a pension from the biggest gummint program out there...Lifer Millitary.[/quote]
I don't see a conflict. A pension is EARNED, whereas a handout is not. Pensions, whether government or civilian, are intended to reward and thus encourage effort and performance; handouts to capable people reward and thus encourage LACK OF effort or performance.
I know nothing about the sock puppet comment other than the definition of the term: a person who hides behind multiple persona and argues with himself.
\m/ |
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mogunn
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:14 pm Post subject: |
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| windoggie wrote: | | But what about the sock puppet??? |
It's a reference to one of those you had to be there moments on rec.windsurfing. Do a little Google search, grab a beer and some popcorn and prepare for a firestorm.
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mo |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:24 pm Post subject: |
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| coyotewindsurf wrote: | | windoggie wrote: | | But what about the sock puppet??? |
It's a reference to one of those you had to be there moments on rec.windsurfing. Do a little Google search, grab a beer and some popcorn and prepare for a firestorm.
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I just googled rec.windsurfing sock puppet and I'm sitting here cracking up and I didn't even open any of the links. There's even some sites that look Polish. Or Icelandic. I have to go to the beer store, as sugguested, and then I'll delve into it.
In his last post, it sounds like Iso knows this sock puppet but won't admit it. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| windoggie wrote: | | it sounds like Iso knows this sock puppet but won't admit it. |
I'd think you guys would know by now that I say pretty much what's on my mind, short of (most) personal attacks. If I knew what this sock puppet comment referred to, I wouldn't deny it. I admit I sometimes look into Porta Poot tanks, but I haven't looked at rec.w in way over a year. The couple of times I peeked in the previous year revealed the same old personal crap I left to escape, with almost no one trying to stop it.
No, thanks. I left the age of 10 behind decades ago.
\m/ |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| swchandler wrote: | isobars,
The whole concept of collisions while out and about is pure fantasy at my venues. Are you one of those that hang in the prime viewing zone?
I've sailed in the central Gorge (usually at Swell City) for weeks at a time during July and August, it's quite easy to move up wind just a bit and be out free from any conflict and pressure. Even at Doug's Beach, the upwind posture frees one's possibilities greatly. |
I don’t see many actual COLLISIONS, but I have to abort several maneuvers per reach to avoid them unless I can get away from the crowd. And since most of us seek the same spot -- the best swell -- it doesn’t take many people to crowd it. When I sail the Hatchery at all, I sail it’s “viewing zone” -- “Kodak Point” -- only when it’s virtually empty, for two reasons:
1. Crowds there get in my way.
2. I get in THEIR way, because I fall more often than they do.
So I head to the geriatric swell zone at the east end of the Hatch until IT gets too crowded, then further east if the swell there is as good (it seldom is).
Similar considerations apply at most Gorge venues: the swarm migrates to the best swell, and, for me, it’s all about the swell. [/quote]
| swchandler wrote: | | Kiters … are … nothing critical with respect to collisions. |
An obstacle is an obstacle is an obstacle. Whether it’s a WSer, a kiter, a sturgeon, a jet ski, a sailboat, or a pier, if it is where I want to be, it’s in the way and a collision risk and one more maneuver aborted. And if it’s moving and can turn or jump, it’s a far bigger obstacle than its physical dimensions might indicate. [/quote]
| swchandler wrote: | | While I'm aware that you live way out east along the Columbia River, I'm quite curious where you consistently sail. While we're in Winter now, I'm really talking about sailing year round. |
Probably 90% of my sailing is at Roosevelt. If I didn’t take winters off, my hands would freeze and I’d never get anything else done. I haven’t found a winter spot that motivates me enough to take extended winter trips.
| gerritt wrote: | | Unless you're in waves, there should be enough room to go for whatever you want. Check downwind and send it. Even in waves, mutual respect gets the job done. |
There’s the rub. I do my best to sail as though our ripples and chop and swell WERE waves. Most sailors sail back and forth and back and forth and back and forth in the north & south rut, and others luff and coast down swell faces towards the east. Amidst that, I jibe and I bounce off lips (if it’s knee-high, it can be “bounced”, aerially or on the water) and I cut back upwind, as tight and fast and often as I possibly can, changing direction up to 90 degrees in an instant 5-20 times per reach and up to 180 degrees in a second when the mood strikes me or when shore looms. I’m pointing every direction I can make the board point from 2 to 10 times per reach, and may point any given way for one second or for 300 yards. I jump upwind or downwind and may land any jump pointing very high or very low or any point in between, and may thus change my path up to 50-60 degrees the instant my hull hits the water (if I have enough fins under me). And at every possible moment, I’m powered dramatically, sheeted in for every knot I can attain, and hooked in. I can’t do that in any kind of crowd without scaring people, colliding, and/or having to abort way too often.
Think about sailing around someone doing that: one second you’re trying to catch him from 50 feet behind and 50 feet below him, the next he’s accelerating downwind across your bow a mast length in front of you, slicing across your wake a few feet behind you, closing head-on with a collision ETA of one second, or lying in a dazed heap one second in front of you.
Nobody wants that, so I have to go find lesser, and thus less crowded, swell. If I can’t, I just hope folks recognize a loose cannon when they see one and give him room to play. A few times a season I see someone else doing that, and I go to extremes to give him all the room he needs so we can both make all the maneuvers and mistakes possible with no chance of collision. I wish more people were that observant, astute, and cooperative.
\m/ |
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mogunn
Joined: 03 Apr 2006
Posts: 1307
Location: SF Bay
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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| windoggie wrote: | In his last post, it sounds like Iso knows this sock puppet but won't admit it. | isobars wrote: | | I know nothing about the sock puppet comment other than the definition of the term: a person who hides behind multiple persona and argues with himself. |
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If memory serves, \m/ wasn't directly involved in the rec dot sock puppet thing. Maybe his comment has more to do with iW's (and a host of other forums) resident loonie toon.
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mo |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:34 pm Post subject: |
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isobars,
I have to admit, The Hatchery has been off my list for many years, as the younger crowd gets awfully tight and a bit too crazy for me, especially with flamboyant aerial maneuvers some try on the immediate north side where the swell stacks up. I'd rather pay extra and get the style associated with Swell City. Truly, an older crowd, but still pretty darn good swell on a big day. The two spots are quite close together, so a lot similarities apply. Yet, I do understand that each spot has its peculiarities and strengths.
Coming from surfing, I'm confounded by this Gorge thought about how folks ride real waves. Quite frankly, the idea of following the trough of the wind swell up river (opposite the wind direction) it truly a Gorge thing. Wave riding in the ocean is quite different, unless you're at some spot like Waikiki on Oahu with the outriggers where going down the line is not a part of the scene. Any wave spot worth its salt requires a hard and tight path along the breaking line/lip down the lineup.
When I ride the swell at Swell City, I view it in the same way. Of course, the opportunity to ride up and just under the lip. or breaking/falling whitewater crests, only happens on the real stellar days. Still though, following a more traditional wave format, I find that the north/south direction is really working the core zone, as it draws along the line of the swell, or actually perpendicular to the wind direction. That attitude also improves the jumps possible both slightly up or down around the moving swell.
If you are doing the Waikiki thing, and then all of a sudden moving up wind moving across the river, I can see why you can easily find conflict with folks sailing back and forward perpendicular to the wind.
You might find it interesting to visit the ocean and spend some time in real waves. Not that that's really better than sailing in the Gorge, but I don't think that it would you take too long to realize the real difference, especially with regard to sailing in bigger half mast to mast high waves. To truly understand the flip side of the coin in sailing real waves, the responsibilities and difficulties getting out through the surf says tons about the realities of the scene associated with sailing real waves. |
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