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RE: Mast Track forward, back or centered?
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SkyRocketnFlight



Joined: 14 Mar 2006
Posts: 102

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: RE: Mast Track forward, back or centered? Reply with quote

Think I'm opening up a can of worms on this one, but here goes...

Any general rules of thumb? Or any specific personal opinions on mast foot forward or back or centered?

Does sail size, board size and conditions matter? Flat versus choppy?
Heavy wind versus light wind..

In general, I'm considered a big guy for windsurfing (6'1", 220) but getting quite good and proficient....consistent water start, planing jibe sometimes, blasting, both footstraps and bumping and jumping recently.

Boards are:
145 Tabou Rocket
120 Quatro Freemove
107 Tabou 3s

Sails: 7.5 (cambered), 6.6, 5.5, 4.7

Thanks,
Greg
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windoggie



Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2721

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I seem to like mine forward...it feels like I have more control. But I'm sure someone will say moving it back gives more control/better speed etc. Just move it till it feels good. Ohh baby! No, seriously, folks, I think mast foot placement is a more personal deal than just about any other rig adjustment. But I'm just a kook, so what do I know.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

seems like.....
If you
are already pretty dialed....
Moving track forwards should raise the nose providing you raise the booms the same amount and sail well powered. Also allows for longer board.
Track back seems to allow the board's nose to move up and down unempeded, maybe flowing thru chop better, and easier uphauling on small boards, smaller feeling board when well powered in straps.
Almost any other rig adjustment, including size and location of fin, will affect board trim too.
No magic formula universal, comfortable seems good....fast seems better, but that means maybe sacrifices in other performance areas.
Compromise, live with it, learn to adapt, works too...
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sergiocremisini



Joined: 02 Mar 2008
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2008 10:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i generally like my base more back, i feel it gives the board a looser feel and the board goes over chop instead of bumping on each one. that is normally what i do for my racing gear and i do almost the same with my wave gear but i am more lenient towards moving the base forward as i think its easier to lose control in choppy, wavy conditions than in flat water, but dont move it too far forward as it wall flatten the nose and make the board stick to the water and give you less control. So to answer your question i always have it more in the middle and towards the back of the track.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 12:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Talking planing conditions only here.....
I started a thread concerning track position, recieved little (none) real replies....except that I'm a kook.
Seems a board that's planing naturally seeks it's own ultimate trim angle, and any rig trim setup that allows it with the least resistance is the best setup.
Now more rocker would mean a totally different rig triangle than a flat rockered flat nosed speed/slalom board.
Standing waay back, track back would SEEM to be the fastest setup, but seems fastest guys still have the tracks at least 23" from center of front straps....at least around here.
Lotsa guys\gals use track back to allow for easier uphauling....balanced out by harder slogging on small boards (your weight + less than 20 liters).
Modern really short slalom boards (like under 225cms) still need tracks in the 130-133 range, so little nose for tacking.
Older 275+ cms boards normally go around 140-145 cms., or whatever the rider likes.
Kinda don't know, care lots, but what can we do?
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9464

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 1:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my experience, each board in my quiver has a certain sail range that works well, so generally I tend to center my mastbase in the track. However, if using a sail on the larger side of the range, I'll move the mastbase maybe an inch forward of center. Conversely, if using a sail on the smaller side of the range, I'll move the mastbase maybe an inch behind center. So really, no real extremes in position, but I'm fairly light at about 160 pounds.

But for a larger much heavier sailor, it's my understanding that the ideal mastbase positions might tend to be a bit more forward in the track. On the other hand, considering a real lightweight sailor on the small side, I believe the ideal positions would tend to be a bit more back in the track.

If a sailor is on the overpowered side and doesn't want to rig down, a mastbase position a bit more forward will tame things down a bit by keeping the nose of the board down.

Yet, a person's skill level can open the door considerably to the extreme (for instance, way back in the track). No question though, experimentation will shed more light on one's preferences.
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millermp



Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 33

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 3:43 pm    Post subject: re: try moving back in big conditions Reply with quote

I eventually got one of the universals that you screw down (one screw vs two hex/allen screws) into the mast track, which lets me get it waaaay back. I'm 6'2" 180# and anything past the center and I feel like the board is just banging every piece of chop. Although with a 6.0 slalom sail on a 106JP Supercross, I put it about 1/4 from the back. I get much less tail walk these days as well.

Having it way back, the sail feels softer and I can more easily put leeward pressure on the rail with my back foot, and then the whole board and rig seems to float, even in heavier chop.

As the other posts mention, there are all sorts of other variables (which I may be compromising on by going way back), but I feel like I get both good comfort and speed.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3307

PostPosted: Wed Jul 16, 2008 10:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riding nose high? Base further forward. Also, look at your wake when planing. Is it releasing way behind you, and really low to no rooster tail? Then you've got the right base position. If the nose is high and the tail release is directly behind you and giving off a high rooster tail, then the base needs forward more. When it's too forward, the board my feel too attached and sluggish.

I loved the HiFly Madd 165 once I moved the base all the way back in it's track. Most of the testers agreed with me when they complained that it felt too much like a log, base forward and mid. BTW, that year, most of the boards in that size class needed the base at mid to somewhat forward, depending weights and harnesses of the riders' tastes. Typically, most of the designers do a very good job to place the fittings just where they need to be. Some of them even give you numbers or logos to help figure it all out....
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, we're really talking apples vs oranges here.....
165 liter boards might need different adjustments to feel light and lowdrag compared to sub 100 liter boards.
When my track goes forward from the standard position, when powered up, the nose RISES and stays up, floating over the chop.
When my track goes back from standard, seems the board pounds nose high, then nose too low, increasing wetted surface and getting slowed down. This with several boards in the '85-95 liter range, fully lit, with a 145 lbs rider.
And riding sub body weight boards (by liter definition), track forwards allows easier slogging, better glide thru lulls, and possibly earlier planing, using more surface area.
Conversely for track back.
I notice track positioning on Formula boards is waay forwards mostly, about 24" ahead of the center of front straps. Those boards are mostly 8' long. Some guys run it farther forwards than that. That's measuring the Zlab boyz track positionings.
Funny, they seem to run about the same on their 23.5 slalom boards!
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3307

PostPosted: Thu Jul 17, 2008 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Never have I seen a board ride nose higher with the base forward. Maybe with the boom super high? Other than that, with proper mast foot pressure, and boom height, base forward from sinker to FW results in nose down. Been on hundreds of boards, 63 liters to the Serenity, in my humble windsurfing exp. Seen the board be too attached as I mentioned with the HF. Also, some GT models and others from AHD a decade or so ago all had their bases to far forward. They ran best with the base at the aft most positions in nearly every wind application.

Maybe you've got a singular style that I can't visualize. When you first started mentioning it, I thought it was a typo. Know of no one else who has noticed your performance experiences.
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