RE: Mast Track forward, back or centered?

[jingebritsen]

I suspect with the boom higher, lines longer and pinched in close to each other, with the base forward, I may be shifting my weight more toward my front foot instead of the back? Seems like it to me. Esp since in gusts or lulls my rig stays well down wind of my (fat) head and shoulders. So, the rig can be mashed into the deck, yet the mast does not lean over my head. COE is low because of the designs of current sails/masts. Lots of sailors have their arms and legs bent, with the rigs draped over their heads. Gusts hit 'em and they get slammed easier. Busted nose syndrome. Rigs raked and vertical make sailors squirt thru gusts.

With faster, wider boards, I tend to seek smaller fins than some of the sailors around here. Rarely, if ever, do I feel the boards in the tests need larger fins, yet some testers do. Offsetting that, on my smaller Euro-style wave boards, I tend to sail them mostly in side on waves with a following current in the occasional gales and storms we get. So I tend to run a slightly larger/beefier fin on those. Complications like this keep me seeking ever better solutions... Keeps windsurfing interesting after 25+ years. :~)

[LeeD]

Interesting for sure, for my 25 years of shortboarding too.....
Wow, that concept of raking rig back over your head, like I seem to do compared to some, doesn't that create lift in the sail, which means lift in the mast base, which should mean a suspended nose of the board ??
GlenMcKinley, from Texas, used to really rake the rig over his head...he said it presented a SMALLER sail surface area when overpowered, so he can hold on to big rigs. He won the -175 lbs class at SPID back late '80s.
I've seen some big sailors really hold the mast upright, and they have tracks pretty far back. They're fast, but most powered big sailors are fast.
Seen sailors my weight hold the sail very upright....they're hopelessly slow.
Maybe rules for big strong sailors are different than setup rules for sub 150 lbs'ers.
I've sailed with most of the big speedsailors back in the late '80's and early '90's, and all of them were well over 60 lbs heavier than me, from DaveLeurs, FerrisHamilton, BradDuffy, JeffBayles, BobBogdanovich, RobHartman and many more, and they all had different rig triangle setups but made it work for them.
Some raked the sail more, some very upright, all faster than 95% of the sailing population.
Maybe in the long run it doesn't really matter WHERE you put the mast base. If you're gonna be fast, you can make it work for you.....except the current freestyle setup of straps waaay forwards, track waaay back, and upright rig with waist harnest. That doesn't seem fast, in my observation.

[mogunn]

[jingebritsen]

Leed, if you have the base back and straps forward, then speeds will definitely suffer. Freestylers are not interested in top end typically. Shoot, doubt they are in the harness for even 60% of what a std sailor would do. Also, can you imagine trying to do prolonged high speed runs with a set up like that? You couldn't move the lines back very far, nor sheet home and let your legs and harness do the bulk of the work....

[LeeD]

But freestylers do great tricks, constantly, and shortreaching...
My basis is for slalom go fast gear, as I'm not fast enough.
Everyone goes straps pretty back, stance variable for comfort while overpowered a little....big guys maybe narrowstanced, little guys maybe wider stance so they don't get lifted in the gusts.
So where should the mast track really BE ??
For me, track back pounds the nose up and down...up is fine, down is huge presented surface area...also smaller board to slog, harder uphaul, more critical jibing for planing style.
I see big guys run the straps back, the track BACK..... I mean expert sailors who don't fall in when they jibe.
When my track is too far forwards, the nose gets lifted medium high, and stays there punching thru big swells and increasing surface area, slow me down again.
Too far forward slows me down, too far back slows me down !!
Maybe I should go back to kiteboarding.

[jingebritsen]

Where ever one decides they like their mast track, sheet home is the operative thought on go fast gear. Once one gets in the habit of doing that, then will the base forward or back change? Up to that individual. What's with going back to kiting have to do with anything? Seen lots of folk (disproportionate, IMHO) go towards fat when they do that. Yes, we're all getting older, but just something I've noticed.

Takes more physical inputs to stay cutting edge in both sports, for sure, but what about where most people end up? One of the arguments that Alkita keeps bringing up in my world: "it's easier, physically," can be brought back to 'em. What, take up kiting and have to start doing gym like activities to stave off the fat factor? Windsurfing is all the workout I need.

[LeeD]

Hi JohnI....
Maybe I'm dyslecic or sumpdin....what is "sheet home" ??
I set my harness lines UNbalanced, so they're mostly too far back (unless I'm well overpowered), and I pull more on front hand than back hand when hooked in. This is something you see more with little lightweight sailors than big hunky guys.
I assume "sheet home" is for guys who aren't riding dialed?
I've heard of "sheeting IN", but never "sheeting home"...except from you, of course.
Honest question.

[jingebritsen]

Back before the war.... I was in the Coast Guard. I was, for a short while, a deckhand on the USCGC Eagle. That command meant more than just sheet in and go. It meant sheet the sail for the right trim. Sometimes that meant using trimming technologies that only apply to square rigged ships. Some folks don't want to hear all that techy stuff....

Suffice it to say that sheeting in is only part of that thought, sheet home. With windsurfing being what it is, our bodies (and minds) have to become the halyards, preventers, stays and shrouds, sheets, uphauls, clew garnets, etc. Mostly, in windsurfing folks forget to trim with the right amount of mast foot pressure, boom heights and harness line considerations. I'm sure you've seen it too. Draping the sail to windward results in an over tendency to jump (nose high) or get slammed when sailors sheet out when gusts hit.

[LeeD]

So I take it "sheeting home" actually means sheeting in the right amount, not too much across the board, not too far out and away from the tail of the board.
Enclosed with that statement, rig trim is included, but that undoubtedly opens another can of worms.
I know with sailing craft, sheeting in enough to get power, then sheeting barely OUT just before actual luffing is the fastest point of sheeting. In sailboats, sheet out just before the leading edge starts to luff. In windsurfers, it's harder to read with cambers and full battens, but really applies only when you're on the verge of overpowered, in a racing frame of mind.
Then the can of worms!!
Seems big strong riders use DIFFERENT techniques to get and keep speed than little riders.
You big guys are looking for MORE power, always, and try to present the most sail area to the wind at all times. Overpowered, you monster stand UP the sail, hoping for more pull, to increase speed.
Then us little guys, easily overpowered, try to hold down as much sail area as possible, but when really overpowered, we seem to have to present LESS sail area so we can still affect idea board trim!
Could that account for our differences in perception as to effect of track placements?

[jingebritsen]

Yup.