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fly50
Joined: 31 May 2000
Posts: 20
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 Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
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Time for school Mr Isobars.
1. I said I had never heard of it. In English, that means I have never heard of it. It doenst mean or imply that it has never happened.
2 People like yourself who are lawyer wanna bes usually have ignorant uninformed opinions. I would love to have seen you "beating blue chip lawyers" with your pseudo-lawyerly knowledge. Im sure it was comical and silly, if it actually happened.
3 Anyone who has posted 2920 times needs to get a life. Do you just love to annoy people, while hiding behind the cowardice of anonymity of the internet? Were you picked on as a kid? Have you always had a problem getting women? Enquiering minds want to know. |
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windoggi
Joined: 22 Feb 2002
Posts: 2743
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| Posted: Sat Aug 02, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| fly50 wrote: | Time for school Mr Isobars.
1. I said I had never heard of it. In English, that means I have never heard of it. It doenst mean or imply that it has never happened.
2 People like yourself who are lawyer wanna bes usually have ignorant uninformed opinions. I would love to have seen you "beating blue chip lawyers" with your pseudo-lawyerly knowledge. Im sure it was comical and silly, if it actually happened.
3 Anyone who has posted 2920 times needs to get a life. Do you just love to annoy people, while hiding behind the cowardice of anonymity of the internet? Were you picked on as a kid? Have you always had a problem getting women? Enquiering minds want to know. |
Here we go.
_________________
/w\ |
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flyskiwindsurf
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| fly50 wrote: | | Kite lines are not sharp. They are not razor blades. The only way they can cut you is to get wrapped around you under tension. I dont know of any incidences of this happening in the gorge, and Ive never heard of it happening to someone besides a kiter getting wrapped in his own lines. |
Maybe you should then work on getting some of the following sentences removed from various kitesurfing safety guidline presentations such as: "KITE LINES ARE DANGEROUS; Never launch your kite with people or animals downwind of it - the lines can snag around them; A kite line snagged around a finger or limb will result in the loss of a finger or limb with a fully powered kite." The bottom line is that, given a reasonable force and speed, I can cause serious injury or worse by DRAWING any diameter line ACROSS a person. And it seems like "snagging" with the possibility then of "lofting" another person ANYWHERE could produce a bad outcome.
| fly50 wrote: | | Secondly, what is all this geeky shit about lawyers and lawsuits? Didnt the guy who posted this want to ask a simple question about his safety? |
Maybe the reason for at least part of the lawyer talk is because of some of the "cavalier" attitude by a few regarding safety/ROW in this as well as other threads including such posts as "Ha Ha Ha ... they are WATER TOYS comrades not sailboats..." in another thread. |
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ducks007
Joined: 27 May 2006
Posts: 35
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 10:58 am Post subject: razor blade lines |
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>Kite lines are not sharp. They are not razor blades.
You know what? Before kiting exploded, back in the early 2000 stoneage, kiters themselves perpetuated this. The guys at the sandbar told stories of kiters getting their hands sliced off. They didn't want anyone else taking up the sport and wanted the image "that kiteboarding is so scary". |
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flyskiwindsurf
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:33 am Post subject: Re: razor blade lines |
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| ducks007 wrote: | >Kite lines are not sharp. They are not razor blades.
You know what? Before kiting exploded, back in the early 2000 stoneage, kiters themselves perpetuated this. The guys at the sandbar told stories of kiters getting their hands sliced off. They didn't want anyone else taking up the sport and wanted the image "that kiteboarding is so scary". |
"he let go of the lines but felt some still around his hands. He tried to get clear of them but was unsuccessful. As a result he lost 7mm off the top of his finger, including the tip of finger bone "
The above quote was found with a short search. Maybe you can find more. 7mm isn't a LOT but possibly he could have "lost more" if he hadn't "tried to get clear of them". |
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flyskiwindsurf
Joined: 21 May 2008
Posts: 91
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:46 am Post subject: |
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| fly50 wrote: | ......Mr Isobars.
1. I said I had never heard of it. In English, that means I have never heard of it. It doenst mean or imply that it has never happened. |
Actually it IMPLIES (at least to me) that you don't BELIEVE that it has ever happened.
| fly50 wrote: |
2 People like yourself who are lawyer wanna bes usually have ignorant uninformed opinions. I would love to have seen you "beating blue chip lawyers" with your pseudo-lawyerly knowledge. Im sure it was comical and silly, if it actually happened. |
His resume' might indicate otherwise.
| fly50 wrote: |
3 ................Do you just love to annoy people, while hiding behind the cowardice of anonymity of the internet? Were you picked on as a kid? Have you always had a problem getting women? Enquiering minds want to know. |
Isobars HAS posted his name and address on at least one thread and all of this portion (as well as a lot of the rest) of your reply is just babbling gibberish sometimes employed by those who are upset, who are losing a debate/argument/discussion, etc. etc.
Last edited by flyskiwindsurf on Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:34 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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knewk
Joined: 11 Jun 2000
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 11:50 am Post subject: Re: razor blade lines |
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| ducks007 wrote: | >Kite lines are not sharp. They are not razor blades.
You know what? Before kiting exploded, back in the early 2000 stoneage, kiters themselves perpetuated this. The guys at the sandbar told stories of kiters getting their hands sliced off. They didn't want anyone else taking up the sport and wanted the image "that kiteboarding is so scary". |
Obviously you have never used a two line wipika....
I started kiting when the only relaunchable kite was a wipika and you had to buy one when you were in hawaii (or Europe)
I lived in the SF bay area and we were always thrilled to see another person kiting (1999) There were possibly 10 people in the area kiting at the time!
(maybe 50 in the entire mainland US)
Perpetuating the myth that kiteboarding was so scary to keep people out of the sport? Not as I remember it!
Kiting has become much safer but bad things can happen quickly |
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stevemadere
Joined: 15 Jun 2000
Posts: 31
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Re: razor blade lines |
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| knewk wrote: | | ducks007 wrote: | >Kite lines are not sharp. They are not razor blades.
You know what? Before kiting exploded, back in the early 2000 stoneage, kiters themselves perpetuated this. The guys at the sandbar told stories of kiters getting their hands sliced off. They didn't want anyone else taking up the sport and wanted the image "that kiteboarding is so scary". |
Obviously you have never used a two line wipika....
I started kiting when the only relaunchable kite was a wipika and you had to buy one when you were in hawaii (or Europe)
I lived in the SF bay area and we were always thrilled to see another person kiting (1999) There were possibly 10 people in the area kiting at the time!
(maybe 50 in the entire mainland US)
Perpetuating the myth that kiteboarding was so scary to keep people out of the sport? Not as I remember it!
Kiting has become much safer but bad things can happen quickly |
OK, so back to my original question:
Do these bad things happen to someone who is
passing downwind of a kiter if the kiter makes a mistake
and accidentally brings their kite down to just above the water?
i.e: Does a kiter have a 100ft radius semicircular zone of extreme
danger downwind of them or do they not?
Answering this question with "just be careful
around kites and make sure the guy flying it is also
competent and careful" is not actually answering the
question. It is a strategy to reduce risk in the even that
the answer is "yes". What I am really looking for here is
"yes" or "no". Not "If the answer is yes, then this is what you
should do"
It seems to me that it is incumbent upon kiters to figure out
the answer to this question and answer it honestly and
clearly. I'm pretty sure everybody else has to answer questions
about the public safety implications of their activities. |
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svance
Joined: 18 Jul 1999
Posts: 6
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 2:19 pm Post subject: Kite lines |
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1. "Do these bad things happen to someone who is
passing downwind of a kiter if the kiter makes a mistake
and accidentally brings their kite down to just above the water?"
2. "Does a kiter have a 100ft radius semicircular zone of extreme
danger downwind of them or do they not? "
I've had a few times where kite lines have come down near me. One of the times the kite and lines came down in front of me while I was sailing. I simply just stopped and got in the water to wait while the kiter got the kite flying again. I've never witnessed anybody getting cut by kite lines while sailing. I had one experience when a kiter passed me from upwind just a few feet away and tagged my sail with the lines of his kite. All other times when a kiter has passed close by me they have been extremely careful and never hit me or my equipment. Out of years of sailing with kiters I can honestly say that most kiters are very competent and considerate to windsurfers. |
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jeinarson
Joined: 04 Jul 2003
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Sun Aug 03, 2008 3:12 pm Post subject: |
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stevemadere wrote:
| Quote: | i.e: Does a kiter have a 100ft radius semicircular zone of extreme
danger downwind of them or do they not?
Answering this question with "just be careful
around kites and make sure the guy flying it is also
competent and careful" is not actually answering the
question. It is a strategy to reduce risk in the even that
the answer is "yes". What I am really looking for here is
"yes" or "no". Not "If the answer is yes, then this is what you
should do" o" |
I kite at the sandbar and occasionally windsurf at the Event site, so I've seen been out in the Event site crowd on both a kite and a windsurfer.
You're not going to get a definitive answer about how far to stay away from a kite. It depends upon the circumstances. Say, you're at the event site and most of the windsurfers are on 5.0 and bigger sails and the winds steady.
If an experienced kiterboarder isn't overpowered and has their kite under control and knows what they're doing they might come pretty close to a windsurfer while imposing minimal danger to both parties. When kiteboarding by an approching windsurfer, it's pretty easy to fly your kite under control almost directly overhead to let a windsurfer pass downwind.
If it's nuking, then it's a whole different story. Both a windsurfer and kiter need to give each other plenty of room. It's always safer to be upwind, so if you're approaching downwind of a kiter and and the conditions are pretty extreme, then you should jibe and make some room for both of you.
It's no different than windsurfing downwind of an overpowered struggling beginner windsurfer stuck out in the middle of the river in 30 mph winds. You need to keep upwind or give them plenty of room , because if they let go of their rig it could easily blow into anyone downwind of them. I've been cut by a windsurfer fin and know several people that have been hit by masts and rigs in the water and on land. I've yet to be injured by my kitelines or hear firsthand of anyone who has been cut by kitelines.
You need to be careful sailing downwind of any craft( windsurfer or kiter) that is upwind of you and the distance that you need to keep depends upon the situation ( windspeed, position of upwind sailor or kiter, your ability, etc.).
Use your judgment and decide for your self how close to come to a kiter. I don't think that kitelines themselves pose an extreme danger, but exercise common sense when deciding how close to come to a kiter.
If you can sail upwind of the the busy spots, like the event site. You'll be away from the beginners and have a lot more space and be among more skilled kiteboarders and windsurfers.
-See you on the water
-j |
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