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Something we can all agree on? Starboard + swell ride = ROW
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:17 pm    Post subject: Something we can all agree on? Starboard + swell ride = ROW Reply with quote

Yeah, I got run off some swell again at the Hatchery by some hotshots who should know better. I know it will happen again too. But maybe this will make a small impact. Just because you're searching for the perfect port ramp to do your little flippy trick in front of your latest girlfriend on the way to the Jibeatorium does not mean you have the right of way over swell riders who are on starboard tack.

If this were a surfing beach, you guys might get hassled (or even beat up) for running a guy off his swell ride, especially when he's on starboard tack! You hot-shots should know better! And if we make contact, it's going to be worse for you than for me (on a powered-up broad reach, my fin will cut your board and foot IN HALF before your puny half-powered beam or close reach gets to my board).

I think this one is a no-brainer.



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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I believe right of way only exists if the starboard sailor HOLDS SPEED AND POSITION, not varying his angles or direction.
I assume when swell riding, you're zooming up and down the face ripping spraying shooting whitewater and radical direction changes.
That doesn't apply to holding course and direction.
OTOH, I do sail with sailors who push their right of way status. I hate them. So I emphasize.
I guess we just gotta get along....somehow.
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whinston



Joined: 18 Apr 1999
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

While not related to this specific incident, I'm interested in people's perspectives on situations where common sense and textbook ROW collide.

If I'm on a starboard tack with the launch behind me and I see someone coming toward me on a close reach, I usually bear off a little and let them stay on course (in case they're headed in).

Naturally, I occasionally appreciate the same, but it seems to not happen as often as it does.

How do others react in these situations? What other exceptions to ROW rules do you commonly observe (and hope others do, too)?
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Berta



Joined: 17 Jun 2002
Posts: 8

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As far as I know, starboard tack has right of way, means hold your course so the other sailor can get around you, not buttdrag bottom turn down some chop screaming "starboard"

Go to the coast if you want right of way on a wave, and if this was a surfing spot, you'd get beat up for even thinking of paddling out.

wait... was there even any swell yesterday? oh and my girlfriend thinks your helmet and lifejacket don't match
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:06 pm    Post subject: Throw out the rule book. Reply with quote

Yes, there was substantial swell yesterday. It was quite fun actually.

Look, there are probably at least two valid TECHNICAL arguements against allowing a guy to ride swell unfettered. For example, if I turn from starboard to port, I may loose ROW. Also, I may be upwind of the other guy. But, for the love of GOD, let a guy ride some meager swell out there!

FYI, I did not wear my helmet yesterday (it doubles as my bike helmet, and I just plain forgot it), but I probably should have.
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:12 pm    Post subject: PS I never scream STABOARD. That is somebody else. Reply with quote

It is pointless to scream much of anything out there; it's impossible to hear over the wind (unless you're in the Zone of Narcissism: Jibatorium). For this reason, I carry a whistle for emergencies.

Also, it's eventually BORING to sail in a straight line.
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jingebritsen



Joined: 21 Aug 2002
Posts: 3371

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When getting thru the break, and someone is coming down at you, while s/he is riding the wave, there may be nowhere to go for the person trying to get out. I always yield ROW to those trying to get out, even if it spoils my wave ride. ROW rules are further complicated by who is slogging vs planing. Planing folks have to yield.

Wave rule is s/he closest to the peak get the wave. But, if one is windsurfing, SUP, or kiting, don't be a hog. That person riding may say, "share it." I usually just give to the surfer, and get the last of the set(s) or the first, if they like to sand bag like me.

Give a little, on the water, get back a bunch. Positive or negative, the choice is up to you.
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LeeD



Joined: 12 Jun 2008
Posts: 1175

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Still, wave riding is NOT swell riding at the Gorge or SFBay or any inland location......
Waveriding rules apply on the coast, in the surf, with whitewater rolling to shore in the wavespots.....
Longstanding tradition at Waddel, DiamondHead, 'yardsOOPS, was wave rider has right of way, going out guy/gal has to avoid, but waverider has to be clear on direction of travel and NOT alter it.....
Dat's the rules since '85 and they haven't change!
Nice guys can give way anytime for any reason, but those are the longstanding rules.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

"The guy on starboard is obligated to hold his line"? Bull! Holding it just gives him a greater claim to ROW; it's a privilege, not an obligation.

OTOH, starboard means absolutely nothing the second s/he diverts from a straight line.

"Swell riding is not wave riding"? Bull! When swell is all ya got and it's limited, as in the Gorge, it IS the same; coasties can like it or not. Swell riders are not going to hit others just to ride swell, but neither are they going to ignore a juicy lip just so others can cruise in peace with 100 feet of space. Hundreds of swell riders divert from straight lines in the swell, some luffed and slow, others with the pedal to the metal; people frightened by this can just take more Valium or move to flatter water ... the other 98% of the river.

And anyone who sails close to someone else in swell for more than a few seconds, whether on the same or opposite tack, may as well expect a big surprise, because the longer they crowd a swell rider, the greater the odds of big eyes. Observant sailors carefully watch others to distinguish swell riders from cruisers, and give the former MUCH more room to play. Just as I appreciate it when other sailors stay the hell away from me, I give other swell riders a huge berth, inviting them to go off whenever they like. When I see a person coming towards me even hint at turning onto a swell, I slash hard and far up- or down-wind to make it clear he's welcome to go off without interference. I get my slash, she gets hers; win/win. If s/he's just cruisin', I just do my thing and don't hit nobody; they're just trees, not tightly wound springs poised to pounce in any direction. If circumstances drive me near others, I do my best to escape ASAP. The longer they deliberately stay too close, the less I care whether they get a surprise ... and I'm one of the NICER guys out there.

Mike \m/
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biffmalibu



Joined: 30 May 2008
Posts: 556

PostPosted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 5:49 pm    Post subject: Riding swell on the Columbia. Reply with quote

Keep in mind my post was directed toward the HOT SHOTS who are very capable windsurfers and who should know better than to run off a swell rider on starboard.

I never try to collide with anyone out there and will always sacrifice the swell for safety. But sometimes I have to wonder about the hot shots who are hell bent for that ideal port ramp that I am surfing on!

Riding swell is definitely NOT about holding one's course. It's about DEVIATING as much as possible in order to have some fun. So I don't swallow the point about holding steady on one point of sail.

Thanks for all the points of view and wisdom. This is the only complaint I will ever post.
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