Back to the Future/Long boards

haterrater · Joined: 03 Mar 2009 Posts: 292

Jingebritsen wrote:

csr7 · Posted: Tue Apr 14, 2009 10:37 pm Post subject:

All I know is that today looked like a really nice wavesailing day, but I was still good from yesterday's SUP fun.

jingebritsen · Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371

Let's drill right down to the issue at hand. How many sailors get to try all classes of long boards to then make an educated decision? Not a whole lot, unfortunately. Have you been able to try a Kona vs a SUP? A Kona 11'5 vs a Mistral Pacifico, or Pacifico Wave, Mr haterrater? Or any other combo's? If not many get to try everything, then how can the many fully understand the media points of view that rarely have the editorial space to be comprehensive as well?

So, if someone tries a SUP with mast track and gets bored/frustrated with it on those all too common onshore days, then they will tend toward just paddling. Seen that all too often. My mentioning a few people within the wind industry is testimony to that. Some even based over in Maui without the onshore problems. Then there's another windsurfer that could have sailed more, and ends up losing interest still further.

Maybe there should be more emphasis on the wave sailing rather than paddling from the WS community? Just a question, having had the luxury of trying all the different classes of long boards available.... Sure paddling a Kona, at first, may be a bit tougher for some. Yet, lots have paddled them. Some very accomplished paddlers like the Konas for flat water. I just need 4-5 mph side shore to prefer sailing, so paddles seem superfluous for me, based on every other distraction going on with my life.

haterrater · Joined: 03 Mar 2009 Posts: 292

actually, j., I have ridden a large variety of boards. The kona one, the 11'5", the mistral pacifico, the pacifico wave, the amundson/aquaglide 11'6", 11'3", and 11'0"; the naish 11'6", the early starboard 11'6ish?" that was really narrow; and without mast tracks I've ridden a 10'4 bonga perkins step-rail and a dave kalama 11' from southpoint.
The konas were great with a sail, especially the 11'5" in waves, but that board absolutely sucked for paddling in waves. it can turn, but it doesn't trim like a longboard should. The displacement is wrong for surfing without a sail and it's just really not much fun without a sail. sorry.
Where I live I spend most of my SUP time in the ocean, not in flat water, so I want a board that performs as a paddleboard just as well as a sailboard.
The mistral pacifico wave actually has a flat under the footstraps and planes quite well, actually, though it's definitely a paddleboard. The pacifio original is quite a fine board for flat water, both sailing and paddling, especially as a lakehouse toy. I know plenty of people who enjoy the simplicity of the thing. The amundsons and the naish I rode were definitely designed as paddleboards but they are supersweet in waves with a sail - they turn and trim like a surfboard, not a windsurfer (there is a difference). They are also nice and wide and paddle the flatwater really well - I'd easily recommend the 11'6"s (both the naish and the amundson) as a lakehouse board to anyone more interested in paddling than sailing, as the simplicity of the SUPs is, imnsho, unmatched. Both of those boards trim and cut in the waves, too.
The kalama was nice but I'm a lighter guy and prefer something slightly thinner for my personal ride; the perkins is more of a performance board and rides great. If I were 150lbs. I'd buy one and put a mast track in it - It's no big deal to do so, either, and I know a couple folks who've done so.

If customers are buying boards without scoping out the competition then it's poor shopping on their part. Most sailors can take vacations - to the gorge, to maui, to hatteras, to corpus - where they can try the product out, or at least see it and touch it, before making the purchase.

The windsurfing community should be focused on getting out on the water and maximizing their fun. period. whatever vessel the choose to ride. Whether they're riding their serenity in a zephyr or practicing their freestyle moves on a small sail or GOING SURFING... I don't care what they do as long as they are improving their lives.
I don't give a flip whether they add a frickin kite to their quiver, for crying out loud.
I just want people to have fun enjoying the water and experiencing the beauty of the ocean. I think SUP boards are great complements to the windsurfing quiver and a ton of fun. Maybe eventually the person will even learn to surf - and then waveride and spend 6gs on new wave gear. And then windsurfing is cool again because a bunch of watermen are doing it instead of a group of rubberized kooks sporting paunches and frowns. and the industry survives another blow because they learned to adapt.

jingebritsen · Joined: 21 Aug 2002 Posts: 3371

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMCkeZHO28I

I always manage my time so as to have a sail in my hands when out in the surf. Two guys in the video, one with and one without the Kona 11'5.

Steve G. tells me that the Kona SUP, yet another model, has better paddle only performance, yet he instinctively seeks the straps that are not present on the Kona SUP. Too bad, with a sail in my hands, I tend to go for moves with far more smack when I'm using a Kona than going strapless.

Smack and snap is part of the fun for wavesailing for me. Doing that paddle stuff is very low priority for me. Dunno if I'll ever get around to it. Side off winds 4-5 knots are plenty common in FL.

http://www.aerotechsails.com/forumpage.html

tm00 · Posted: Fri Apr 17, 2009 5:31 am Post subject:

SeaDawg · Joined: 12 Sep 2002 Posts: 384

I was never very involved with racing, but my Tasar would be fun to race. The boat came with a binder on how to sail it and get the most out of it. As I recall the boat weight fully rigged is about 150lbs. I spent alot of tme single handing it. It got fairly busy tacking in 15-20. Holding on to the Main sheet with my teeth, rotating the mast, setting the Jib Sheet, sliding up on the gunnel, slipping my feet under the hiking straps, bare off a bit. Get the boat up on a plane, sheet in somemore and really start flying. Makes windsurfing a walk in the park.

I think they are still being built in VanCouver,BC

Great Boat......

Jamiewatts · Joined: 22 Sep 2006 Posts: 7

Off the south shore of Long Island NY I have sailed longboards for years, and still frequently sail Equipe and a modified '88 Superlight - but last year added Pacifico (the first, big one), which was a gift from my wife (not chosen by me). It is not the only SUP board I have paddled/windsurfed. I have also windsurfed 11' Amundsen, Kona Surf, and paddled Amundsen and Oxbow 11'. For non-surf paddling the Pacifico is as good as the Amundsen, and for light air sailing, it's much better. The Kona Surf is too small for good light air sailing, and I never had it in the waves, but undoubtedly this is the longboard for high winds . The Pacifico in the waves in not great - too little rocker - but it's ok. No doubt the Amundsen, with more rocker, would be better, but never had the chance. But where the Pacifico really shines is sailing/windsurfing in 7-15 knots - planes up beautifully and is fast. I sail it without straps - once you have done this for a while it's hard to go back to straps (unless wind is 20+, which I don't have a lot). The deck of my Equipe now seems hopelessly crowded and uncomfortable.

Point is, I think it doesn't really matter that much which longboard you have - they each have their strengths, but all will allow for loads of fun. That is what is great about the longboard/SUP phenomenon, is is a return to the roots of the sport - it is fundamentally playful (in this respect BIC Jungle may be most pure expression of that playfulness). Local conditions and personal preferences will suggest one board over another, but it doesn't matter that much. Yes, most people will never have the chance to demo boards before they buy, and yes, I would love to try the Starboard SUP'er, or The Whopper (how does it sail?), and would really love to try the AHD Sea Lion (which is sort of a different category), but don't see how the companies could have a business plan that would allow this. If you're not in Hawaii, you've got to guess at equipment - so far, I have done well this way, after some research on the web. I will add that it's a troubling trend that board manufacturers are now offering mast tracks in only a few of their SUP boards (many makers have no mast tracks). I don't get it. What is the actual cost to manufacturers to put a track in? $10? $20? Is it an aesthetic issue? Is it a nod to purists?

noshuzbluz · Joined: 18 May 2000 Posts: 791

The wife and I just had our maiden voyages Saturday. I got her a soft SUP and me a Bic Jungle. Its funny. I've never been on the water at our local lake unless it was windy. To jump on the Bic and paddle around on glassy water was amazing! It was neat to see all the vegetation and fish swimming through it. Its gonna be a fun summer!
OK, now beat me up for buying the Jungle........ Confused

Aranel · Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 78

The Kona One is a perfectly acceptable flat-water SUP. I've done it on many occasions, even compared it to the Amundson SUP, which my wife owns. The Kona has a fine straight-line performance, especially with the daggerboard down. This can be useful when dealiing with winds and river current. It's a little slow compared to the Amundson, but I'm not looking to win any speed records here. I've also never paddled the Kona in the waves.

The Amundson is a very nice all-around SUP. I haven't put a sail on it yet, but I will soon. The thinner rails make it easier to turn than the Kona. Can't wait to try it in the waves.

The point about the Kona One is that it's a great all-around board. It does few things extremely well, but it does many things. My buddies on the Hudson still laugh at my huge board, but I'm the only one out sailing when the winds are below 15 MPH. And I'm having a good time.

Jaimewatts, are you coming to East Coast Windfest?

-Ian

www.hudsonwindsurfer.blogspot.com