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Another Petition to sign re keeping CA State Parks open
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Bard ... I hate to break this to you but GOVT handouts are good for everyone. If everybody wanted to be a successful capitalist, competition would be tougher for guys like me, then maybe, i couldnt windsurf. Us lazy capitalists benefit from the GOVT welfare, both corporate and personal. Keeping the US from becoming like the Phillipines is good . Unquantifyable. The only people who complain about taxes are lazy, entitled people, hardworking successful people are greatful to be living in a great place like California and understand that GOVT is not perfect.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5773

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Come Bard, you're drafting on nonsense, and many folks realize that. You play the youtube game and make ridiculous statements, but what does that mean? Where's the beef?

I'm not buying the poor kid stuff. I'm thinking that nealpar has got your number.
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 1933
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 11:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:
I'm a proud Californian who hasn't sailed in over a month.

I'VE BEEN TOO BUSY WORKING TO PAY MY TAXES. Rolling Eyes

http://www.taxfoundation.org/research/show/22313.html

Mac: With regard to kids in poverty, the vast majority have drug/alcohol using parents who didn't finish school. My family was very poor until I reached high school. My wife and her 10 brothers and sisters all came to America without the ability to speak english. They were dirt poor, but all worked their way through colleges WITHOUT 1 CENT OF GOVERNMENT ASSISTANCE. They are all wealthy now.

Envy is a dangerous thing.


Quoteth from your source: "In 2004, the total tax burden paid by Americans reached $3 trillion - roughly $27,000 per household. For that, the average U.S. household received more than $31,000 in government services. That includes direct payments from Social Security, Medicare and other programs as well as public goods distributed uniformly, such as defense spending."

Well, that is a bunch of spin to make a political point as as ever been and feeds directly into my distinction between so-called "unearned" government income such as food stamps, WIC and Medicaid and all the rest, including the return of money by way of SSI that a worker paid during his or her working life. I can't even begin to fathom how much defense spending factors into it!

The rational conservative position is as follows: While some government assistance to the poor is of value to both the recipient and to society in general, there comes a point where too much assistance incentivizes reliance on handouts at the expense of self-reliance. Conservatives find this demarkation point sooner than those to the left.

What is not rational in any shape or form is to call general and military spending a form of social welfare. General benefits are those non-quantified value adds that make the USA a pretty nice place to live: safe food, decent transportation, courts that are open if not efficient, increasingly clean waterways, etc. In what possible way do these support the position that handouts encourage continued poverty and stymy self-reliance. That's your point, after all.
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nealpar



Joined: 25 Oct 1998
Posts: 624

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard wrote:

Envy is a dangerous thing.


Laughing

Narcissistic delusions are even more dangerous. Wink
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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4057

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 1:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MEEEOWWWW Embarassed
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2362
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey now, let's not live to hate Shocked

All things being equal you could be in Baltimore..

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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5143

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 11:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevenbard--you know nothing, and you read thoughtful comments, like Dan's, poorly. Let's start with kids in poverty. Certainly some have bad parents, or as I have said, deserve better parents. So is your solution to ignore them, jail them, or educate them? Mine is the latter. Jailing them is the growth industry in California. But for the roughly 1/3 that have parents with issues, there are 2/3 that simply live in grinding poverty, sometimes of several generationss, and have learned the defense mechanisms to go along with that. Your parents quickly found a way out of that, perhaps because immigrants (legal or otherwise) tend to be the movers and shakers. Those with enough initiative, family networks, and financial resources to escape and come to America. It has been that way for many generations, including my ancestors. But you know nothing of the difficulties of a single mother, or a child who cannot rely on her parent (rarely 2) for even emotional support.

It is said that government is the institution that does the things we do together. At the federal level, the military, social security, and medicare are the very big ticket items. I would like to see the cost of the military, or at least much of it, made into a user fee for imported oil security because that is what most of the costs go for. It could be revenue neutral, or revenue beneficial, but would start to focus market forces on better sources of energy. Even strikes me as conservative, in the non-religous right sense of the tradition. I think that both social security and medicare are unsustainable--costs are rising faster than revenues--but I see little in the way of thoughtful reform. Or do you subscribe to George Bush's idea that we should invest in the stock market?

At the State level, education, health care and prisons are the big ticket items. Do you really think that it is cheaper to house a poor person for sixty years in a prison than try to educate them and make them into a taxpayer? If so, you aren't paying attention.

So look at what will happen next year. No money from the state for fixing roads. The last time I hit an unrepaired pothole on my way back from windsurfing, I had to get new shocks--about $300 if I recall. Doesn't take many of those to spend up the Republicans savings. Read something besides the Republican part web site!
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boggsman1



Joined: 24 Jun 2002
Posts: 3512
Location: at a computer

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good rap Mac, you just illustrated the key difference between parties. Most of Repub buddies love to complain and bitch about taxes and GOVT, but never offer any way forward. Whereas, most of my Dem buddies talk like you, they are constantly thinking about a solution.
Boggsman
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jpbassking



Joined: 19 May 1998
Posts: 2362
Location: Leo

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

boggsman1 wrote:
... they are constantly thinking about a solution.


Yeah well talking about a solution is all well and good but taxes have been raised before many times and we always end up in the same boat. I want to see real accountability from the state and federal governments. They get plenty of our hard earned dough already.

Maybe CA should legalize gambling and prostitution and tax that.

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stevenbard



Joined: 11 Nov 1993
Posts: 4057

PostPosted: Thu Jun 18, 2009 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Who said I was republican? I'm not.

No I don't want to cut childrens food benefits. Just the guy with the $500 cell phone.

The terminator just proposed an accross the board 5% pay cut for state employees and they all shit about it. (even though they make 150% more than private sector) raise taxes they say!

Meanwhile Obama gives trillions to the same corporate cheats who stole the money. Why don't they distribute it to small businesses who create most of the jobs?

CHANGE WE CAN FU@K!N BELIEVE IN? BULLSHIT....CUT THEIR PAY NOW!
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