myiW Current Conditions and Forecasts Community Forums Windsurfing Videos Buy and Sell Services
 
Hi guest · myAccount · Log in
 SearchSearch   ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   RegisterRegister 
Chinook Waterstarter
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
3-phase



Joined: 26 Jan 2007
Posts: 480

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Come on guys, let's not make learning waterstarting tougher than it really is. The idea that you need to buy waterstarting lessons is a bit over the top. I taught myself to windsurfing without a single lesson, and with respect to learning to waterstart, I taught myself to do it in no more than an hour, if even that. After that I could always waterstart, because it kind of the same as learning to ride a bike. Once you get it, it's second nature.

Actually, I thought the videos were very clear. After letting the videos soak in, it's simply practice to hone your skills.


I teach lesson there are different people the one's that get it in 5 second and then ones that need 1 year. To keep the later in the sport too I recommend lessons for them, a good instructor can teach you a lot and it becomes easy aka fun and they stay with the sport and bring there buddy's too.

Big sail Waterstart even in very little wind I Waterstart easier the uphaul for me also easy on the back ha ha. For the Santa Barbara and San Diego guy come to Cabrillo Beach we are more then happy to give you some some lesson we have ABK trained staff.

Now I need to go and teach my new student's ha ha I promised my self to get more people hooked on Windsurfing and make there experience with the sport the best they had.

Jurg

www.kasail.com
www.a-h-d.com
www.windsurfdeal.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
rsanrafael



Joined: 27 Feb 2009
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 2:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLARBR119w,
There are certain conditions when a little extra buoyancy can help (especially in that little area just downwind of the Playpen where the combination of wind and current seems to want to bury your clew.) Go to Kmart (there's one just over the Antioch Bridge) and get a pool noodle for about 2 bucks. Remove your boom extension and slip about a 6-12" section over each end, sliding it up to the clew. Reassemble the boom. If you need more, slit an 18-24" section down the spine and zip-tie it around the end of the clew. The noodle will not float your clew completely, but it will make it sink more slowly and come up faster when you go to clear the sail.

Jingebritsen,
If you like Sam Adams Brown, you'll love Moose Drool.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
NickB



Joined: 30 Jun 2009
Posts: 494
Location: Alameda, CA

PostPosted: Sat Aug 08, 2009 9:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thank you all for your pieces of advice. I gained something from pretty much each of them. I had seen the youtube video, and it seems good for the actual waterstart but had not helped me with the positioning that much. the boardseeker video is great. today I have also purchased the "ABC's of waterstarting" video by Dasher (Vela) following the good review here, they happened to have it at a local store. I'll give it several watches till it's engrained in my brain. and I'll practice, practice, practice. and if in a month or so I still haven't waterstarted, I'll get the lesson I'll obviously need Smile

I won't get the Chinook Waterstarter. however, from all my experience not waterstarting, I highly recommend their EasyUphaul if you're already in the harness. I'm amazed that more people are not using this incredibly simple and efficient idea.

Nicolas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 7:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are making the wrong decision not spending the $30 for the Waterstarter. I use it all the time. It helps a lot. My most used sail this season (I've put in over 40 days since Jan 1) has been a 9.6, and I just started using an 11 meter sail. I can waterstart without the aide, but it does add something when I do. The energy saved has been put to good use. Without it, I would probably not have developed any skill at flying the clew when waterstarting, either. Walk first, then run. With it, the clew flies without any effort on my part. It puts you at a great advantage with the big sails. Small sails, 6.0 and under, you really don't need it.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BLARBR119w



Joined: 04 Mar 1998
Posts: 11

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank God someone else has experienced having the clew defying the laws of physics and sinking to the bottom. I thought it was just me. I might do the noodle thing that rsanrafael suggested. I already removed the front footstraps because they were just making it more difficult to sweep the rig across the board ( I don't use them yet). On my next outing, I'll follow Matt's advice and venture into neck deep water. I'm so close to waterstarting I can taste it. And I certainly respect those of you who can do it effortlessly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
noshuzbluz



Joined: 18 May 2000
Posts: 749

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is what helped me the most. There's also Short board Techniques II That take you the next step.
Wow! This is a 1988 video.....I'ma gittin old! Shocked

http://www.amazon.com/Short-Board-Sailing-Technique-john/dp/B000EOEIGO

_________________
The Time a Person Spends Windsurfing is not Deducted from their Lifespan...
http://www.openocean.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5476

PostPosted: Sun Aug 09, 2009 6:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLARBR119w,

Because of what you said about the front straps, I thought I would offer an opinion. If you aren't planing in the straps yet, why push learning to waterstart?

In my learning curve back in 1985 and 1986, I never even tried to waterstart, but instead concentrated on planing in the straps, tacking and jibing. However, I should emphasize that I started on nearly a 12' board, and initially I relied on uphauling to put things together. Very soon, I got so efficient with tacking and jibing that I didn't need to uphaul so much, especially since I learned to beach start.

In my view, waterstarting offers no real appreciable advantage unless you can readily plane in the straps. You might want to think about that and your upfront horizon line.

Of course, others might disagree, but my strategy and focus worked so well with me. On the first day that I used my new shortboard, I taught myself to waterstart both ways in less than a hour.

In my opinion, put those front straps back on and start using them, sooner rather than later. Planing is everything in active windsurfing, so that activity should be the primary focus of learning windsurfing.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
sailingjoe



Joined: 06 Aug 2008
Posts: 1087

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 3:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
Just practice. The ability to fly the sail is crucial, so that's what you need to focus on. There's no practical aid that will substitute for understanding the basics.
Bogus claim. A practical aide will help you learn the basics of any sport. Futhermore, the waterstarter helps flying the clew with the big sails, plain and simple. It's easier with it than it is without it no matter how much you understand the basics.
BLARBR119w wrote:
I might do the noodle thing that rsanrafael suggested. I already removed the front footstraps because they were just making it more difficult to sweep the rig across the board ( I don't use them yet).
The noodle thing is just a home made version of the waterstarter. However, I wonder if placing the floatation at the end of the boom wouldn't be the best way to make it easier to fly the clew. The way I learned how to waterstart was to buy a cheap short board and go out in strong winds. It's easier to learn many windsurfing techniques when you have wind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
acctx



Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 76

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLARBR119w wrote:
I have the same experiences as Nick B. As long as I can stand up, I can orient the board and sail into the correct position. As soon as I'm in deep water, everything I try fails. I get exhausted after trying a couple of times even wearing a PFD. Then I get worried about getting blown downwind or downcurrent (I sail at Sherman Island) and say screw it-and just uphaul. Of course uphauling in wind over 20 has it's own problems.

The boardseeker video helps explain what to do to get into position. But what do you when your sail ends up vertical in the water? In other words the clew is five feet underwater. I appreciate everyone's input.


I feel your pain. I learned to waterstart this past season and it took me 3 sessions to get it consistently. I did have the waterstarter but it was pretty much useless. I was struggling and at the end of the first day one of the regulars suggested that I was too low on the mast. I moved higher up on the mast and it just clicked on the second day. By the third day I was waterstarting regularly. For the longest time I rested the boom on the back of the board. It turns out this isnt necessary and it eats your boom grip. If you do it right it takes very little energy so you wont be exhausted, it completely uses the wind to lift the sail.

Face the luff directly into the wind, these days I dont care which direction the board is pointing - up wind is ok. The trick for me was to have my hands between the boom and the mast tip on the mast (closer to the boom). There is a small set of angles at which if you shake (pump) the sail, it lifts out of the water completely on its own. I found the angle by resting my boom on the back of the board and slowly pulling the rig into the wind (lots of trial and error). If you lift the sail while the luff is perpendicular to the wind you will sink the clew.

If I had to guesstimate, it is something like between pulling the mast around 10-20 degrees away from perpendicular to the wind. At that point the sail has lift and you can walk your hands down to the boom. The trick is to keep the sail at that angle. Too perpendicular to the wind and you will get pushed down, too parallel to the wind and the sail will flip.

I end up holding the boom and keeping the sail at 10-20 degrees of perp to the wind and then body dragging. The board will probably be pointing upwind at this point. You can push down on the mast - because you are essentially getting blown downwind, the board will try to orient itself to be pointing downwind. when the board is perp to the wind you can put your feet on it. You can then start to let the sail pull you out of the water.


If your clew is underwater you can wait Smile or you can swim while pulling the mast into the wind and perpendicular to the wind. Also you sunk the clew 1) because you were holding too low on the mast. 2) you tried to fly the sail too perpendicular to the wind.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 13309

PostPosted: Mon Aug 10, 2009 9:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

BLARBR119w wrote:
a. I'm learning to waterstart and having a hard time getting my sail to fly.

b. what do you when your sail ends up vertical in the water? In other words the clew is five feet underwater.


a. You are wearing some kind of flotation vest or PFD, right? If not, get one. You can discard it later if it becomes unnecessary. (I've been waterstarting since 1984 and still half-drown if not wearing mine.)

b. I wait. Archimedes will do the actual work.

NickB wrote:
which afaik means a full swimming circle


The only swimming I do in WSing is a) chasing a runaway board & sail and b) getting to shore when the wind quits too suddenly. To turn my sail and rig, I simply place one hand on each and swing my submerged legs and torso in 5-foot-radius circles. A few rotations uses big, fresh torso muscles to rotate the whole schmear 180 degrees in well under a minute. Before or after I do that, I use wind power to flip the rig to an appropriate orientation. This doesn't need to be WORK.

You will kick the fin only once.

Regardless of your technique or hardware, your Number One Priority is keeping the board and rig pointed where they must be. Work on that. If you let all the other objectives distract you and let the board and/or rig stray, you just blew your waterstart. If you do nothing BUT maintain proper orientation, sooner or later a gust will waterstart you, at which point you will slap your palm against your forehead and shout, "Eureka!".

Oh, and after a few days of floundering at it, a single day in terrain too rough for uphauling will FORCE you to waterstart. I had tried for a season, but learned in one day when Kanaha chop gave me no other choice: waterstart or pound sand.

Mike \m/
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    iWindsurf Community Forum Index -> Windsurfing Discussion All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
You can attach files in this forum
You can download files in this forum

myiW | Weather | Community | Membership | Support | Log in
like us on facebook
© Copyright 1999-2007 WeatherFlow, Inc Contact Us Ad Marketplace

Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group