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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2015 11:55 am Post subject: |
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Ah, mister polite is back with more insults, and the sackcloth argument. As polls show more and more suspicion of denier propaganda, spokespeople for the carbon industry resurface old arguments and attribute an apocaliptic future of cold and no computers to those who want to capture the true cost of carbon emissions. It bothers them not at all that nobody who understands climate change is arguing that we must abandon oil. But protecting that market share for oil is the goal, and no lie told in service of that goal is, to some, unethical.
So first, let's look at the growth of renewables. New generating capacity shows dramatic growth in renewable energy--estimates run from 37% to 75%. http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2014/01/renewable-energy-provides-37-of-all-new-us-electrical-generating-capacity-in-2013.html
for 2013, and for first quarter 2015: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/articles/2015/04/renewables-account-for-75-percent-of-new-us-generating-capacity-in-first-quarter-of-2015.html
Of course, the increasing support for a carbon tax or fee seems to be what most scares the climate liars. More and more people and increasing numbers of Republicans and businesses are falling in line to support such a fee. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/08/1702861/price-carbon-tax-broad-bipartisan-support-congress/
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/05/business/energy-environment/large-companies-prepared-to-pay-price-on-carbon.html?_r=0
So business, and particularly the insurance industry, understand the increasing costs associated with global warming. Those with some vision and truly conservative principles understand that a carbon tax is much more efficient than a sector-by-sector regulatory structure that is currently in its initial stages.
But rather than take on serious alternatives, with serious discussion, propagandists will resurface the false choices of sackcloth and ashes. Perhaps they are linked too closely with hair shirts to understand the difference. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2015 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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It seems that there are a few Republican legislators, and organizations like the API, that get it. Some form of carbon tax is inevitable.
Quote: | DAVIS BURROUGHS | JUNE 10, 2015
A new effort to tax carbon dioxide emissions, courtesy of Sens. Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) and Brian Schatz (D-Hawaii), was unveiled today at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. With support from big oil companies, some right-leaning groups and most Democrats, a carbon tax might be the most “politically popular” policy available to fight climate change.
But the conditions for assuring a bill safe passage through Congress aren’t ripe. Whitehouse and Schatz will have to bridge wide-ranging interpretations of how exactly a carbon tax would work.
The bill proposes to reduce carbon emissions by more than 40 percent below 2005 levels by 2025, but offers up a big bargaining chip: lowering the top marginal corporate income tax rate from 35 percent to 29 percent.
The venue for the announcement, the conservative American Enterprise Institute, was deliberate. Before details of the American Opportunity Carbon Fee Act were released, Whitehouse said in an interview that he chose AEI to “reach out to the other side” and to show the bill has “conservative cred.”
GOP lawmakers, for the most part, have long danced around the issue of climate change. While an absolutist rejection of the science isn’t as widespread in the party as it was a few years ago, only a handful of Republicans – a mere five in the Senate, for example – have gone on the record saying climate change is real and caused by human activity. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 10:28 am Post subject: |
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Strange silence from the land of defense contractors and climate change apologists. Mrgybe and his ilk have now been publicly rebuked by the pope. It doesn't phase him to ignore facts, scorn the left coast (and all to the left of Atilla) but this is his own moral beacon. The oft-quoted line in the news:
Quote: | It is not enough to balance, in the medium, term, the protection of nature with financial gain, or the preservation of the environment with progress. Halfway measures simply delay the inevitable disaster. Put simply, it is a matter of redefining our notion of progress.
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To be sure, mrgybe's colleagues at the Energy Research group stepped up to defend destruction of the atmosphere. Perhaps we have discovered that Thomas Pyle is mrgybe's alter ego, not the archbishop. |
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nw30
Joined: 21 Dec 2008 Posts: 6485 Location: The eye of the universe, Cen. Cal. coast
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | Strange silence from the land of defense contractors and climate change apologists. Mrgybe and his ilk have now been publicly rebuked by the pope. It doesn't phase him to ignore facts, scorn the left coast (and all to the left of Atilla) but this is his own moral beacon. The oft-quoted line in the news:
Quote: | It is not enough to balance, in the medium, term, the protection of nature with financial gain, or the preservation of the environment with progress. Halfway measures simply delay the inevitable disaster. Put simply, it is a matter of redefining our notion of progress.
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To be sure, mrgybe's colleagues at the Energy Research group stepped up to defend destruction of the atmosphere. Perhaps we have discovered that Thomas Pyle is mrgybe's alter ego, not the archbishop. |
You're treating the Pope like you treat the constitution, it's (or he's) in the way, unless there is something there that can support your cause.
The Pope also said this in his writings~
For Pope Francis, caring about the environment goes hand in hand with taking a strong stand against abortion. "Since everything is interrelated, concern for the protection of nature is also incompatible with the justification of abortion," the encyclical says. "How can we genuinely teach the importance of concern for other vulnerable beings, however troublesome or inconvenient they may be, if we fail to protect a human embryo, even when its presence is uncomfortable and creates difficulties?"
Francis suggests that efforts to slow population growth are misguided and a distraction from the underlying cause of the world's environmental crisis—the hoarding of the Earth's resources by the rich and powerful. "To blame population growth instead of extreme and selective consumerism on the part of some, is one way of refusing to face the issues," the encyclical says.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/pope-francis-climate-change-and-abortion-are-interrelated-20150618
So which is worse, the war against women, or the war against the Earth?
It can be dangerous to selectively quote the Pope.
But I'll throw you a bone.
It just may be time to start running down the street with arms waving in the air screaming "the end is near!".
Humans will be extinct in 100 years says eminent scientist
Jun 23, 2010 by Lin Edwards
(PhysOrg.com) -- Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2010-06-humans-extinct-years-eminent-scientist.html#jCp
Last edited by nw30 on Fri Jun 19, 2015 7:49 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011 Posts: 14890 Location: on earth
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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nw30 wrote: | mac wrote: | Strange silence from the land of defense contractors and climate change apologists. Mrgybe and his ilk have now been publicly rebuked by the pope. It doesn't phase him to ignore facts, scorn the left coast (and all to the left of Atilla) but this is his own moral beacon. The oft-quoted line in the news:
Quote: | It is not enough to balance, in the medium, term, the protection of nature with financial gain, or the preservation of the environment with progress. Halfway measures simply delay the inevitable disaster. Put simply, it is a matter of redefining our notion of progress.
|
To be sure, mrgybe's colleagues at the Energy Research group stepped up to defend destruction of the atmosphere. Perhaps we have discovered that Thomas Pyle is mrgybe's alter ego, not the archbishop. |
You're treating the Pope like you treat the constitution, it's (or he's) in the way, unless there is something there that can support your cause.
The Pope also said this in his writings~
For Pope Francis, caring about the environment goes hand in hand with taking a strong stand against abortion. "Since everything is interrelated, concern for the protection of nature is also incompatible with the justification of abortion," the encyclical says. "How can we genuinely teach the importance of concern for other vulnerable beings, however troublesome or inconvenient they may be, if we fail to protect a human embryo, even when its presence is uncomfortable and creates difficulties?"
Francis suggests that efforts to slow population growth are misguided and a distraction from the underlying cause of the world's environmental crisis—the hoarding of the Earth's resources by the rich and powerful. "To blame population growth instead of extreme and selective consumerism on the part of some, is one way of refusing to face the issues," the encyclical says.
http://www.nationaljournal.com/energy/pope-francis-climate-change-and-abortion-are-interrelated-20150618
So which is worse, the war against women, or the war against the Earth?
It can be dangerous to selectively quote the Pope.
But I'll throw you a bone.
It just may be time to start running down the street with arms waving in the air screaming "the end it near!".
Humans will be extinct in 100 years says eminent scientist
Jun 23, 2010 by Lin Edwards
(PhysOrg.com) -- Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.
Read more at: http://phys.org/news/2010-06-humans-extinct-years-eminent-scientist.html#jCp |
can you site the specific words that the Pope actually said vs what a right winger waco partisan website tells you he said. _________________ when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:00 pm Post subject: |
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So embarrassingly predictable. They ridicule the Pope's positions on abortion, gay marriage, contraception, population growth. In these matters, to use their laughable dialog, the Pope is a member of the "Argentinian Taliban". They continuously accuse him and his colleagues of abuses of children when justifying bad behavior in their own ranks. However, if the Pope says something that they agree with.........no matter how much more balanced than their own inflammatory language..........he is their champion to be quoted as an authority. Schoolyard intellect. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999 Posts: 20935
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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nw30 wrote: | But I'll throw you a bone:
Humans will be extinct in 100 years says eminent scientist
Jun 23, 2010 by Lin Edwards
(PhysOrg.com) -- Eminent Australian scientist Professor Frank Fenner, who helped to wipe out smallpox, predicts humans will probably be extinct within 100 years, because of overpopulation, environmental destruction and climate change.
Read more ... |
I have better things do do. Alarmist nuts have been spouting the overpopulation myth for a looooong time. It's as stuck in some people's minds as the saturated fat = cholesterol = heart disease myth. |
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real-human
Joined: 02 Jul 2011 Posts: 14890 Location: on earth
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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mrgybe wrote: | So embarrassingly predictable. They ridicule the Pope's positions on abortion, gay marriage, contraception, population growth. In these matters, to use their laughable dialog, the Pope is a member of the "Argentinian Taliban". They continuously accuse him and his colleagues of abuses of children when justifying bad behavior in their own ranks. However, if the Pope says something that they agree with.........no matter how much more balanced than their own inflammatory language..........he is their champion to be quoted as an authority. Schoolyard intellect. |
Maybe you will understand this... the world is no longer flat... hahahahaha past your pay grade for sure _________________ when good people stay silent the right wing are the only ones heard. |
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mac
Joined: 07 Mar 1999 Posts: 17748 Location: Berkeley, California
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Posted: Fri Jun 19, 2015 6:49 pm Post subject: |
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I can understand mrgybe's defensiveness. After telling us all how important and influential he is, he proved it. The pope directly chastized him and his brethren in the denier business. Ouch. Pretty high profile. So he makes up a bunch of stuff, and pulls the classic diversion game.
Quote: | So embarrassingly predictable. They ridicule the Pope's positions on abortion, gay marriage, contraception, population growth. In these matters, to use their laughable dialog, the Pope is a member of the "Argentinian Taliban". They continuously accuse him and his colleagues of abuses of children when justifying bad behavior in their own ranks. However, if the Pope says something that they agree with.........no matter how much more balanced than their own inflammatory language..........he is their champion to be quoted as an authority. Schoolyard intellect. |
There is no intellect, schoolyard or otherwise, involved in this post. A series of lies. First, I do not ridicule the pope's, or anyone's position on abortion. I am not a supporter of abortion. I am a supporter of effective birth control because it reduces abortion. I am also a supporter of privacy, and the separation of church and state--that is, not imposing my views about abortion on women that I don't know. Or letting you guys impose your religious views on those who do not share them. You guys just can't handle that, and misrepresent the position of most of the world on this issue. Lies. You can't handle the distinction, or find a way to support birth control--which is succeeding in reducing abortions.
Second, it was the last pope and the Catholic bishops throughout the world that tolerated abuse. It is this guy who has stepped up and required acountability. I think he is great, and is doing things to salvage the church.
Third, I don't ridicule the pope's position on gay marriage. He is perfectly within his rights in establishing this within his church, and no priest will be required to perform such a marriage, and it need not be recognized within his church. I stand with the Irish on this one--and I share their antipathy for Brits.
Fourth, same story on contraception. I disagree with the pope--I ridicule you. Wonder why? I'm with about 90% of American Catholics on this one.
Finally, it is a vacuous and dishonest debating trick, practiced by those who have no argument, to make vague and unspecific accusations such as "justifying bad behavior in their own ranks.", particularly in the pope's message calling you out. But I know how much I get under your skin--so a rebuke from the pope must really hurt. Maybe you should think about it--he's your spiritual leader, not mine. |
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mrgybe
Joined: 01 Jul 2008 Posts: 5180
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Posted: Sat Jun 20, 2015 10:02 am Post subject: |
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mac wrote: | I stand with the Irish on this one--and I share their antipathy for Brits. |
Speaks volumes. Angry and ignorant. |
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