is this going affect us?

[andymc4610]

this one (Trojan) used to be in the western gorge don't think i have any WS photo's of it. Never thought anything about it at the time sure the water was 10 deg above any other spot but Hanford area. they imploded this one 5 or so years ago....

[outcast]

i just think that it's amazing that we can have a healthy debate without old you-know-who around to barf things up and hijack the thread.

i really don't care too much one way or the other.....if i wanted pristine sailing conditions, the cheap fix would be to blow up the Bourne and Sagamore bridges around April every year.

(And fix them around October so i could get to WalMart once or twice)

Also, It would be nice if the ferry systems who are/were major wind farm opponets, would actually "Save Our Sound" and stop discharging poo into it........

Actually, if we could just get rid of Nantucket, then there would be real waves at Kalmoose and WD

The sailboat racing crowd always had this theory that the air was dirty up to seven mast lengths downwind, so given that these things will be miles away, i can't see it changing my sailable days unless the blades chop up fog, or if you believe JE's blender-mixing theory .....it's probably moot....Plus it's not so much that Nantucket sound blows as much as that Hyannis sucks

[RickCronk]

I agree with Jerry about the possible mixing effect, but with a vortex at around 200 ft. Whoa baby watch those high jumps.
On a not to recent trip to CC I saw a news article with a Photoshop image of what the view from Kalmus might be with the farm on the horizon. Even at 450+ feet high it would look quite small. Remember two of the most local opponents of this project, W. Cronkite and T. Kennedy have now passed. So, it should not be surprise to see it happening.

Think of them as a large kinetic sculpture. RC

[outcast]

Well, on Page 15 of the paper posted by VesterLH, it says that turbulence can be expected up to 10 km downstream:

http://www.wind-watch.org/documents/wp-content/uploads/wake-ris-r-1615.pdf

Too much theory to be believable, but it's still more than 10km offshore...might change the Figawi race, but again a bigger impact could be expected if they just banned alcohol.

If they put a lot of lights on them maybe we can sail at nite?.....that would be kinda trippy to sail thru a whirling overhead mass at nite.....WOOOSH WOOOSH!

[iceratz@comcast.net]

[DanWeiss]

It's true that the oil market prices can be subject to volatile swings. What is strange, I suppose, is that the price of oil (or better, the average closing price across all types) has little to do with classic supply and demand theory, except at times of huge demand spikes. The energy market is speculative and commoditized. The price of oil is what somebody will pay on the spot market, and that price is only loosely tied to supply versus demand since almost all energy is purchased as a future.

Sweet crude oil is the type most commonly refined into gasoline, and sweet crude prices are the most oft quoted when discussing the cost of oil. Yet there are over 150 types of petroleum-oil traded, and not all plants SE MA use oil. For example, there are 7 oil-fired power plants in SE MA, 4 coal plants, 3 natural gas, 1 nuclear, 2 solid-waste, and 2 plants use jet fuel of all things.

Oil-fired plants can create about 1,700 MW in the summer, out of about 3,700 MW in total capacity. In fairness, some of these oil-fired plants are backups, like the 2 on Martha's Vineyard that only spool up if there is a problem with the larger mainland stations. They are enough to keep the hospital and airport operating, but not much more, I don't think.

My point is that the price of oil certainly will go up over time, but don't think that production of Texas Sweet Crude will ever be used to fire one of our power plants. That stuff is for gasoline and other uses requiring high hydrogen content to avoid seriously expensive refining expenses to rid heavy oil of additional carbon. In other words, sweet crude is increasingly rare and increasingly valuable unless we stop using gasoline to propel our cars. There is a lot of heavy oil around and it should remain fairly inexpensive for a long time, I think.

At max output, Cape Wind could produce roughly 10% of the region's energy. The average output of Cape Wind is presently forecasted at 182 MW, its max. output forecast at 448 MW But, unlike oil and gas facilities with tanks of reserved energy waiting for the spigots to open, Cape Wind can't make the turbines spin without the wind blowing.

I'm not saying the the Cape Wind project is a bad idea. In fact, I think it's a great idea with enormous social good. I only wish that people acknowledge the cost of this energy. Not the lost birds, lost views or damaged fishing tackle, but the actual cash cost per KwH at the last mile. It's what you and I will pay in transmission fees. I think both you and I are happy to pay the extra money, but not all of our neighbors are so delighted at an extra $100 per year. I think especially of the year-round residents of MV, many of whom are near the national poverty line. $9-10 per month is noticeable to these families.

Cape Wind is advertised with producing "free" electricity and eliminating hydrocarbons. These statements are patently false. The KwH price is much higher and Cape Wind will rarely replace any "dirty" source except when the grid is stressed. In fairness, maybe Cape Wind will be the go-to source whenever the wind blows even though its energy price is almost double.

One final thought: We are all familiar with the so-called sin taxes. Taxes for booze, cigarettes, etc. Why not spread the extra generation cost of Cape Wind across the grid rather than leaning only on the users of wind power? Like coal? It's gonna cost you. Like wind? You'll get some money back by being able to deduct the extra generation/transmission costs from your state taxes. I'd certainly support that initiative!

[outcast]

That's like......
Carbon units!

You get 0 points if your mast is less than 50% carbon
4 points for 100%

Same for booms etc......
Except for skinny wave bases.....negative points if you still use a carbon one....what with all the tales of fails