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dda1
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 7
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 Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 10:37 am Post subject: Spectator hurt |
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I have to apologize to the community. I guess I made a mistake posting here.
Original post deleted
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Don Albonico
http//:www.SerriaPhoto.com
Last edited by dda1 on Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:16 am; edited 2 times in total |
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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 11:25 am Post subject: Re: Spectator hurt |
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More head in the sand? Great to give the family some support, although money for a lawyer might be better, but what about addressing the real issue? Kiteboarding must be more tightly regulated in the Bay Area, even without counting this appalling accident it is a mess out there, with 20 yards long slashing objects sharing the beach with everybody else. I am only waiting to see the same happen at Crissy: it will.
There must be special areas for Kiters, and they must be closed up to everybody else.
Last edited by dvCali on Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:22 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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dda1
Joined: 19 Jul 2010
Posts: 7
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 2:45 pm Post subject: |
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post deleted
Last edited by dda1 on Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:13 am; edited 1 time in total |
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swchandler
Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 10588
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:09 pm Post subject: |
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"I am sure it was not done on purpose. Other then getting the injured person whole again."
While I'm sure that this accident wasn't planned on purpose, the real problem here is that the offending kiter fled the scene after injuring a child. Basically, a hit and run offense. That's pretty damn serious, and by the comments on the kiting forum, folks in the kiting community recognize that. Furthermore, to think that the issue can be fixed by raising money to pay the child's hospital bill really misses the mark. It must be remembered that situations like this can result in a ban. One bad apple can spoil everything. |
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hemmy007
Joined: 10 May 2002
Posts: 101
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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This is the nature of kiting dangers; the 'danger envelope' is about 25M to 100M downwind. That is a LOT OF LIABILITY, esp for people who barely know what they are doing, like people learning at Alameda.
I have been WS for about 24 years and learned to kite in 2001.
I still kite a few times a year, every year less and less by watching the near misses at W and HERD and wanting to have less and less to do with this scene.
I have seen kiting RUIN many of my favorite WS and Surf spots up and down the coast.
Because of these types of problems, kiting has been BANNED at my beaches on the east coast. And yes, it is just a matter of time before there is a very serious injury or death (of a small or old person) at Crissy or a beach in So Cal.
| dda1 wrote: | | Please don't let this get to the finger pointing /blame game. It could just as easily been a windsurfer hitting someone with a mast. |
That could ONLY HAPPEN TO SOMEONE within 2 to 3 meters of the windsurfing...in 24 years of WS I have NEVER heard of that happening. EVER.
| dda1 wrote: | Please don't let this get to the finger pointing /blame game.
....A kayak dropping on a foot, whatever it was an accident. . |
That could ONLY HAPPEN TO SOMEONE within 1 meter of the person holding the kayak...I bet that has happened before, maybe a few times, small stubbed toe(s), no real downside (like having your finger CUT OFF BY KITE LINES).
This almost happened at herd ave a few weeks back as some darwin-award wanna-be was hucking upwind of people in the water next to the rocks and lost control, the other kiter almost lost his finger, but I guess that is OK, because the Delta Bravo who did it did NOT INTEND to do the damage.
| dda1 wrote: | Please don't let this get to the finger pointing /blame game.
... I am sure it was not done on purpose. |
Not sure why anyone would CARE if this was done on purpose, that is the nature of kite mares, they are ALL ACCIDENTS. ;-0
Even the ones that were completely avoidable.
If you want to work to keep beaches open for all comers, KS and WS alike, you would be wise to get behind the need for KS regulations (like having specific launch and landing areas where there are a lot of mixed use beach traffic (i.e. old and young people having a picnic).
Until then, the mayhem and kitemares will continue to haunt the unsuspecting beach visitors. |
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isobars
Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 20935
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:24 pm Post subject: |
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| dda1 wrote: | | It could just as easily been a windsurfer hitting someone with a mast [or] a kayak dropping on a foot |
No, it couldn't. Mast range: 15 feet. Dropped object: 1 foot. Kite strings: 60 feet minimum, potentially hundreds of feet).
Risks: Mast ... bruise or maybe even a contusion (Barbara Greene was a rare exception); kayak ... bruise or even a broken foot bone; kite string ... severe lacerations, easily disfiguring, possibly fatal.
Even presuming the operator behaviors are identical, the equipment definitely is not.
Mike \m/ |
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gerritt
Joined: 06 May 1998
Posts: 632
Location: Redwood City, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:26 pm Post subject: |
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| dda1 wrote: | | It could just as easily been a windsurfer hitting someone with a mast. A kayak dropping on a foot, whatever it was an accident. I am sure it was not done on purpose. |
I am an attorney, but I don't practice personal injury/torts work. That being said, I find this comment both amazing and naive. Calling it an accident does not absolve the kiter/windsurfer/kayaker of responsibility.
We all owe a duty of care to other beach goers and failing that, we are responsible for any damage done. This duty is pretty basic - watch out for others and act to avoid foreseeable harm. The area of foreseeable harm involving kites is obviously much larger than for windsurfers or kayaks. I don't carry my rig upwind or over the heads of beach goers for the obvious reason that most are oblivious to wind direction and my sharp fin.
There is another concept directly involving kids that all of us should be aware of: attractive nuisance. It is a doctrine in the law that recognizes that if you create something that draws kids in to a dangerous situation where they can get hurt and in fact get hurt, you are responsible! Even if those kids are trespassing and hopped fences to get to the nuisance. This clearly would apply to colorful sails and kites. Signs are not enough. In fact signs might work against you in court.
Kites are in fact lethal. They have killed and maimed kiters themselves and the many threads on these boards are a testimate to that fact. They would make powerful exhibits in court to establish the duty of care kites owe others when launching and landing their powerful weapons.
Unless kiters start to police themselves and launch and land away from beachgoers, its only a matter of time before someone is killed along with the sport. The photos of that little girl are heartwrenching. What if the line was a few inches down and severed the carotid. She would have blead out and Alameda as a venue for kites over.
As usual, its the few ruining it for the many. With what I see going on at Third just down from the windsurf launch, its only a matter of time before someone dies in that area. One guy went into the the rocks and wound up in a coma - his fault and he only hurt himself. Another lost a finger - not his fault, but a least it was kite on kite.
I don't hate kites or kiters, but I don't tollerate idiots. I think its time to start thining the heard before Darwin takes care of the whole lot. |
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MrFish
Joined: 04 Sep 2009
Posts: 248
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| dda1 wrote: | | Please don't let this get to the finger pointing /blame game. It could just as easily been a windsurfer hitting someone with a mast. A kayak dropping on a foot, whatever it was an accident. I am sure it was not done on purpose. Other then getting the injured person whole again. Everyone, windsurfers & kiteboarders should be very concerned about have one of our access locations shut down to all. |
That is simply ridiculous.
Kiters are constantly taking risks with other people's lives and well-being, the same cannot be said of any of the other sports, dropping a kayak or something on someone's foot.
C'mon.
It's become a constant of life on beaches that kiters go to, that children, windsurfers, bystanders, swimmers, etc., are in danger on the beach, or in the water, and are often totally unaware of the dangers that kiters pose. |
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dvCali
Joined: 23 Aug 2007
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| dda1 wrote: | | Please don't let this get to the finger pointing /blame game. It could just as easily been a windsurfer hitting someone with a mast. A kayak dropping on a foot, whatever it was an accident. I am sure it was not done on purpose. Other then getting the injured person whole again. Everyone, windsurfers & kiteboarders should be very concerned about have one of our access locations shut down to all. |
You might be missing the point: it is to the Kiters' benefit to be more strictly regulated in their access to the water.
Just imagine a scenario where some passer by or sunbather has a kite-encounter at Crissy and the Presidio Trust is sued because of it. Imagine what that will do to access.
Windsurfers would have the same problem IF people swam in the Bay Area, but they do not. On a beach a windsurfer is no threat compared to a Kite. |
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rigatoni
Joined: 25 Feb 1999
Posts: 498
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| Posted: Wed Sep 08, 2010 8:28 pm Post subject: |
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Unfortunately we are wasting our time talking about this issue. Vast majority of folks are kiting pretty responsibly and respectfully BUT
1) Kiting is fairly easy to learn and somebody with limited skills is in a position to cause a lot of damage.
2) Kiting has chosen to "brand" itself with a bit of a rebel/outlaw image. It breeds a small minority of A-holes who like to throw huge air right in close to the launch/beaches. I don't care how good you are at your sport-you don't have 100% control.
For the most part, I have received nothing but grief trying to raise the issues with kiters. When the inevitable accident does occur at Crissy, I pray to god it isnt me or my friends and that the NPS is capable of distinguishing between the two sports. |
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