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ascott72



Joined: 12 Jun 2006
Posts: 124

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Jumping questions Reply with quote

I broke my board a couple of weekends ago jumping. (RIP) It was a 4.2 day and I was launching off the swell and took a couple of hard flat landings. Looks like the mast foot had slid forward in the track and I am sure the mechanical universal joint didn't help any. I didn't even notice the damage until I got off the water.

I am on a new board now and using a rubber universal joint. Was sailing at Doug's last weekend and started jumping again. Landed flat a couple of times and it got me nervous. So I am seeking some advice:

1) What's the proper way to land a jump?

2) How do you go long instead of high?

Also, I am a little scared of bearing off in the air because I don't want to launch into an accidental forward.



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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2273
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 12:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Landing flat is a sure fire way to snap a board. And you are right about the mechanical joint adding additional stress to the mast box.

The safe way to land is tail first. Just extend your back leg down right before landing, then extend your front foot right away so as to avoid rounding up or spinning out.

The best way to land low to moderate jumps is nose first, but it's easy to land flat as you learn. Try jumping off the wind to pick up nose first skill.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19023

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

• If you're using an SDM, use a Chinook Hydroshok. As a shock absorber, it smooths the ride for the board, the rig, and your body, and increases your speed a little (according to some dude named Finnian Maynard). I love 'em, especially with the joint you're using, but they don't fit into RDMs.

• Don't just passively crash back to the surface. Observe its approach, and just before you land, extend your back foot to intercept the water on YOUR terms, not gravity's. This engages the fin more gently to reduce its spinout tendency, and reduces the landing shock very dramatically compared to flat landings.

• By far the softest landings I can consistently achieve come when I look skyward (hooked in) just as my fin leaves the water. This drives my board straight up, converting almost all my forward speed into greater altitude. The first time I did it I got an inverted view of the shoreline I was leaving, whereupon I realized that John, who suggested this technique, had neglected to tell me how to get back down. Several factors and choices raced through my mind (it was a big and very steep ramp, and 1/2MVsquared was rapidly morphing into beaucoup MH; I had lots of time to contemplate alternatives, consequences, regrets, John’s future, and the economy). I finally figured that since looking at the sky got me up there, maybe looking at the water would get me back down. (I wasn’t sure gravity would; it felt like that surly bond was severed. More on that later.) I looked down to the surface spot about where I felt like ballistics might take me anyway (presuming, of course, I was not REALLY in orbit), and sure enough, I began my descent (reentry?). Now I’m wondering what this landing is going to do to my ankles, knees, hips, spine, teeth, hair follicles, board, most fish within a 50-foot hemispherical radius … and, of course, the economy.

It was the softest, most featherlight cush I had ever experienced from any jump that actually … you know … got my fin out of the water. It was like jumping off of … lessee … a thick book onto a carpeted floor. It made no noticeable sound as the fin gently engaged and hooked up, the tail entered the water, the hull sort of rolled out onto the surface (or so it felt) like a rolled sail unrolled onto the ground prior to rigging, and planed away. YESSSSSSSS! It was more like taking a step forward rather than stepping down off of something.

My points:
• Long/low jumps are not necessarily the softest.
• Looking up (only if harnessed in) adds to both the thrill and to some of the softest landings you can buy, at least until you master nose-first landings … and works whether it’s a two-foot chop hop or mast-high plus. (I have no idea whether it works at Dale Cook’s altitudes; I was born on THIS planet.)

I suspect it’s so soft because we’re rotating the sail into parachute or hang-glider mode. Whatever … it works. Check it out next time you think your fin has cleared the water; that’s all it takes. It can convert a waist-high hop into a waist-high chop with the board vertical ... (I know … OOOOH) … but it FEELS and LOOKS much more impressive, and what else matters?

And, ya know, in all these decades, I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

Mike \m/


Last edited by isobars on Sat Sep 11, 2010 3:22 pm; edited 1 time in total
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jedi



Joined: 12 Jul 2003
Posts: 36

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say if you're trying to jump long i can offer two pieces of advice, go fast, and don't turn all the way up into the swell, launch more across the wind. As far as not landing flat, just extend your back foot, then your front foot.
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joew



Joined: 18 Jul 1999
Posts: 156

PostPosted: Sat Sep 11, 2010 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The easiest way to land a jump smoothly and plane off fully powered immediatly without any appreciable loss of speed,IMO, is to bear off down wind, deep down wind, into broad reach territory, whilst still airborne, and as previously stated land slightly rear foot first. I have to give you guys alot of credit for dissecting what have become instinctual and habitual shortboard maneuvers into step by step explanations for newcomers, it's hard to accurately describe something that is done so much by instinct and feel.
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Georges



Joined: 10 Apr 2000
Posts: 249

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:
• If you're using an SDM, use a Chinook Hydroshok. As a shock absorber, it smooths the ride for the board, the rig, and your body, and increases your speed a little (according to some dude named Finnian Maynard). I love 'em, especially with the joint you're using, but they don't fit into RDMs.

• Don't just passively crash back to the surface. Observe its approach, and just before you land, extend your back foot to intercept the water on YOUR terms, not gravity's. This engages the fin more gently to reduce its spinout tendency, and reduces the landing shock very dramatically compared to flat landings.

• By far the softest landings I can consistently achieve come when I look skyward (hooked in) just as my fin leaves the water. This drives my board straight up, converting almost all my forward speed into greater altitude. The first time I did it I got an inverted view of the shoreline I was leaving, whereupon I realized that John, who suggested this technique, had neglected to tell me how to get back down. Several factors and choices raced through my mind (it was a big and very steep ramp, and 1/2MVsquared was rapidly morphing into beaucoup MH; I had lots of time to contemplate alternatives, consequences, regrets, John’s future, and the economy). I finally figured that since looking at the sky got me up there, maybe looking at the water would get me back down. (I wasn’t sure gravity would; it felt like that surly bond was severed. More on that later.) I looked down to the surface spot about where I felt like ballistics might take me anyway (presuming, of course, I was not REALLY in orbit), and sure enough, I began my descent (reentry?). Now I’m wondering what this landing is going to do to my ankles, knees, hips, spine, teeth, hair follicles, board, most fish within a 50-foot hemispherical radius … and, of course, the economy.

It was the softest, most featherlight cush I had ever experienced from any jump that actually … you know … got my fin out of the water. It was like jumping off of … lessee … a thick book onto a carpeted floor. It made no noticeable sound as the fin gently engaged and hooked up, the tail entered the water, the hull sort of rolled out onto the surface (or so it felt) like a rolled sail unrolled onto the ground prior to rigging, and planed away. YESSSSSSSS! It was more like taking a step forward rather than stepping down off of something.

My points:
• Long/low jumps are not necessarily the softest.
• Looking up (only if harnessed in) adds to both the thrill and to some of the softest landings you can buy, at least until you master nose-first landings … and works whether it’s a two-foot chop hop or mast-high plus. (I have no idea whether it works at Dale Cook’s altitudes; I was born on THIS planet.)

I suspect it’s so soft because we’re rotating the sail into parachute or hang-glider mode. Whatever … it works. Check it out next time you think your fin has cleared the water; that’s all it takes. It can convert a waist-high hop into a waist-high chop with the board vertical ... (I know … OOOOH) … but it FEELS and LOOKS much more impressive, and what else matters?

And, ya know, in all these decades, I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

I don’t ever remember endoing after a jump.

Mike \m/

all this from a man whos fin has never left the water Cool
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dangerd



Joined: 18 Jun 2008
Posts: 39
Location: Salt Lake City, Utah

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 10:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobars wrote:

• By far the softest landings I can consistently achieve come when I look skyward (hooked in) just as my fin leaves the water.

Mike \m/


What.........you stay "HOOKED IN"?

Ummmm, wow.....I'm sure you go huge.


Last edited by dangerd on Wed Sep 15, 2010 4:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LAWLER



Joined: 27 Apr 2001
Posts: 62
Location: somewhere... buuugs in space!

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 2:14 pm    Post subject: Hooked on a feeling Reply with quote

Being a person who learned to jump "hooked in" it's just comfortable for me to do it that way. Since learning that way I have tried doing jumps unhooked, just doesn't feel right. I do jumps to maybe head high maximum. I rather go distance and level off, never nose up and tail in first on re-entry. I have never asked a more experienced person what's best in jumping or how to. So I suppose there are bad things that cAn happen hooked in. Next time I see the pro I will ask him.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19023

PostPosted: Wed Sep 15, 2010 3:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

After decades of flying dirt bikes off dunes, snowmobiles off cornices, and my body off high cliffs when available and safe (quarries, Lake Powell, Florida sinkholes), and because I always wear rib armor, height over water is not something I worry about. Unfortunately, my skills aren't up to the task of getting big air. Not for lack of trying, I seldom get my hull much more than mast high. I'd guess my biggest jumps are around 20 feet ...a chop hop for Dale Cook in the Gorge and a yawner for experts on ocean ramps. I keep telling myself to get back in the jumping mode, but my focus for years now has been on slashing, with smaller jumps (5-10 feet) thrown in a random. I see no point in unhooking just because I've left the surface; why cut my day short by using strength and energy instead of harness lines? Am I missing something?

Mike \m/
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gwandsh



Joined: 02 Aug 2016
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Thu Sep 16, 2010 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Avoid sucker ramps. In the Gorge at least, I am frequently tempted to turn too high into the wind for a steeper ramp. Unless you can maintain lots of speed to then turn off the wind, you will go vertical, sometimes stall, and almost never land with speed. Might be good for working on back loops or tall floaties, but not long or fast junps.

As another poster mentioned, take the ramp on an angle (after you pick it well). This has the added benefit of leaving the water with your board bottom slightly exposed to the wind, which will both guide you off the wind, and provide lift. I spend a lot of time looking for ramps on a good day, and sometimes you just have to wait for the wind to settle down enough (direction and speed) to get a good pattern set up. Then it's a matter of gauging your speed for the desired liftoff. General rule, faster is better.

As for hooked in/out, my jumps feel similar to fast sailing. I am no pro, but my jumps are much nicer when hooked in. If I hit a particularly juicy ramp I sometimes unhook at liftoff - simply because I think I could be nailed by a big gust while in the air. However, this almost always makes me sheet out and lose power, making for a lame landing.

Cheers

p.s. And don't watch Dale and Bruce. When I think I am jumping really well, one of them will show up and I feel like I'm back in kindergarten...
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