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euro pin vs two pin us bases
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bred2shred



Joined: 02 May 2000
Posts: 924
Location: Jersey Shore

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 12:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the ability to easily connect and disconnect the rig from the board as mentioned above is the only significant improvement of the Euro pin system vs. the US system. You don't have to mess around with trying to get the holes in the base to line up with the push buttons as with the US system. The ability to stuff the downhaul line up inside the mast base is convenient, but not too critical. With skinny masts, there's no room to get the line up in the base, and I tend to feel more comfortable with the tail of my downhaul line tied off as a back-up anyway.

The US system is tried and true. It is considered very dependable. The Euro system seems to have gotten the kinks worked out, but there were issues with components breaking in the not-so-distant past. Plus, as mentioned, all euro systems are not interchangeable.

I have used single bolt, rubber, US cup mast feet almost exclusively for the past 15 years and have yet to see any compelling reason to change.

sm
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 9136

PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When switching to RDMs, I converted to Euro-pin extensions to eliminate the eventual wobble in the 2 pin plastic cup on the universal that arises due to wear over time. I got in this rut of having to buy new universals every year to get around the problem. I guess I could have bought new replacement plastic cups, but then you get into the hassles of removing the old ones and the whole assembly/Locktight process. Also, to do the job right, you need the right tools and a holding fixture arrangement.

Another thing, unless you have a stainless steel collar inside the 2 pin extension, like the old Fiberspar carbon extensions, the holes eventually get worn into an oblong shape, which ultimately doesn't offer a snug connection between the extension and universal.

Also, when using the 2 pin design universals, I regularly had problems with the pins shearing off of the clip assembly installed inside the plastic cup. Although I never experienced a separation between the extension and universal when a pin would shear off, I didn't feel comfortable coming in to find out things were less than safe.

Lastly, in the changeover to the Euro-pin design, I went with the Chinook stainless steel universals. Having the pin being constructed out of a single piece of material as the top component part effectively eliminates a potential source of failure inherent in a design where the pin was a separate screw-in component.
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Wind-NC.com



Joined: 30 May 2007
Posts: 957
Location: Formerly Cape Hatteras, now Burlington, VT!

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Good info here so far.



I would add that Chinook's stainless steel pin system is basically bombproof. Mine is maybe even 6 years old (?) at this point and still looks brand new (with routine tendon maintenance). As long as I don't lose my UJ, I'll probably never have to replace it.

It does weigh more than the US Cup systems, but that's tough to notice when underway.

Beware getting sand and grime in the Pin extensions, as they can get gummed up. I have seen rig/board separation when the Pin system wasn't fully seated, but that's user error and not the fault of the equipment.

Cheap knock off euro pin UJs and extensions are more likely to fail than the Chinook or streamlined pin systems.


I would say that the Euro Pin is the ultimate for precise rig connection, handling, and long term durability. The US Cup is better if you like to pick your rig up and stick it straight into the sand to check the harness lines before connecting it to the board and hitting the water.


Hope that helps!

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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2246
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hodad.andy wrote:
Good info here so far.



I would add that Chinook's stainless steel pin system is basically bombproof. Mine is maybe even 6 years old (?) at this point and still looks brand new (with routine tendon maintenance). As long as I don't lose my UJ, I'll probably never have to replace it.

It does weigh more than the US Cup systems, but that's tough to notice when underway.

Beware getting sand and grime in the Pin extensions, as they can get gummed up. I have seen rig/board separation when the Pin system wasn't fully seated, but that's user error and not the fault of the equipment.

Cheap knock off euro pin UJs and extensions are more likely to fail than the Chinook or streamlined pin systems.


I would say that the Euro Pin is the ultimate for precise rig connection, handling, and long term durability. The US Cup is better if you like to pick your rig up and stick it straight into the sand to check the harness lines before connecting it to the board and hitting the water.


Hope that helps!


Let's also remember that neither Euro-pin or US bases are all the same quality from one to another.

Twin-pin:
    * stainless spring pin can bend and release under stress without the sailor ever suspecting a problem.

    * plastic cups are prone to wear and require a close eye to avoid stressing the bolt that holds the cup to the UJ/tendon assembly.

    * stainless spring pin buttons will "ovalize" the extension holes over time, trashing the extension.

Euro-pin:
    * assemblies can collapse over time resulting in a poor interface between the pin and the internal retaining clip. Usually it makes it impossible to click in, so it's not a risky, latent problem.

    * the pin diameter is greatly reduced where it screws into the uni assembly. So the actual sheer strength of the pin is less than what is apparent from the pin's visible diameter.

    * the retaining clip inside the extension can be prone to jamming and seizing if not rinsed properly.


Ooo . . list function is cool!
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chophop



Joined: 16 Apr 1996
Posts: 224

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 12:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I also believe that with the Euro Pin you can actually get a shorter miniumum extension on a skinny mast set up, since with a US cup on a skinny mast you have to allow for the height of the cup.

Since I could be wrong, This leads me to repeat my query as to a skinny mast extender with a 0-4 cm minimum extension. Anyone know of a brand that sells one, or have a good used one to sell?
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DanWeiss



Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 2246
Location: Connecticut, USA

PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 2:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fiberspar can be used pretty much as low as it goes no matter the actual extension length. Just remove the split ring entirely, slip the collar off the extension and butt the mast directly against the plastic piece containing the attachment button etc. This should get you within 2 cm of true zero if memory serves. But again, there is no true zero in reality.
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Epop



Joined: 12 Jul 2007
Posts: 6

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 10:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

switched to euro pin about 2 years ago, had a failure on the pin with a cheap no brand base after first 3-4 sessions (it was the screw in pin and it broke exactly where the pin screws in the upper part) went and bought the Chinook one and never ever looked back ever since, i still have a us 2 pins base as a spare with an old extension but using the chinook euro pin mast base and extension is sooo much better, the best thing for me, aside from the snug fit, is the easiest to connect the sail on the board even when I'm in the water
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esteban



Joined: 21 May 2000
Posts: 223

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

At our resort in La Ventana we used Chinook US base unis and extensions for many years and have now switched to Chinook EX euro pin and are happy with the switch. The pins extensions are easier to disconnect with the caveat that sand in the base is more problematic than with the US base. the early generation Chinook pin unis were prone to breakage where the 8mm stud screwed into the pin part but the new ones with tendon the top and bottom pieces are milled from solid stainless steel and I cant imagine what it would take for those pieces to break the only weak link is the tendon itself and as long as you have the joint saver line in place you shouldnt have to swim home...unless of course you didnt insert it all the way!
we had some breakage problems with another brand of pin but are totally satisfied with the new Chinook EX system and feel that is a big improvement over US base, the streamlined ones look bomber as well.
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U2U2U2



Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 4838
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the placement in the water is a good positive in the water,

also after a tiring session much easier to remove with cold hands

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coachg



Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 2620

PostPosted: Fri Nov 26, 2010 12:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here was the early problem with the Euro pin.

http://www.calema.com/forums/viewtopic.php?id=102

Coachg
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