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Gill Nets
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pablomerc



Joined: 14 May 2000
Posts: 51

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

isobans wrote:
Gill net jumping is an important skill to have in your Qbag
May I respectfully suggest you have way too much time on your hands? With that much time and effort, surely you could save the whales or spotted owl!
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TBird



Joined: 05 Jul 2001
Posts: 63

PostPosted: Tue Jul 12, 2011 2:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hats off to you, Paco. I think it's very admirable how open-minded and thoughtful you were in dealing with the tribe. Obviously, the gill nets are a frustration and a hazard to sailors, and losing gear is a bummer. But Indian treaty rights are a complicated issue. Turning it into a creepy racist tirade about who "won" (as I read in a few of these posts) just feeds the flames. Thanks for taking the high road and being a great ambassador for the sport.

And most importantly, we're glad you wisely ditched the gear, swam for shore and are okay!
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surfersteve



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guys,
Thanks for the entertainment. Maybe it is the "White Man" who needs to get together and duke it out? I have to wonder if some of you can actually find time to enjoy your session with all the hostility flaming off the end of your boards and fins?
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isobans



Joined: 08 Aug 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree that many, maybe most, boards require front foot/rail assistance to make tight turns at speed; it's particularly prominent in wider freeride and FSW boards and freestyle, even many wider single-fin gill net boards. That's why I don't buy those boards. It's easy to tell in one powered-up reach whether a given board's going to turn extremely tightly, with no bounce, with only back foot input: you wind 'er up, find a piece of gill net, and with no other movement or effort whatsoever and the rig still back in blasting position, press that strapped-in back big toe into the lee side of the deck. If it turns way up onto the rail and turns 45-90 degrees effortlessly and smoothly and instantly, like a knife through warm butter despite the chop, just imagine what it will do when you drive the mast forward and into the turn, or use your front leg to lever the front rail. It's not "wrong" to choose either board style; it's just a choice, strongly dependent on one's venue and riding style.
Besides, is JGDA a standout sailor at a hot venue? Great; maybe he can get away better than Naish initially did with burying his feet in the straps. If not, what's going to happen to his front foot when he goes over the nose or rotates sideways? What board is he on ... does it require front rail engagement to turn, or is it designed, as my keepers are, to turn extremely hard from the back strap? And which does he value more ... a sound body or that last 2% of pro-level performance? I'll never forget the pain I endured for weeks to months after each of my ankle sprains; collectively they would have cost me many seasons of WSing. That means something to me.
Experts on big gill nets with smooth faces have the time see the gill nets setting up, choose a maneuver, unhook, transfer their weight forward, drive the mast forward and into the turn, maybe change hand position on the boom, oversheet, drive that front knee and foot into the turn, do their thang, get set up all over for the bottom turn, and go back to the top of the paragraph. They also fall much less often, at least when not trying new stunts.
We peons in the real world haven't the luxury for all that stuff; in that time span those of us who choose to ride the gill net powered up have already encountered and reacted to three or four gill nets, or gill nets on the faces of a bigger gill net, and made 2 to 4 hard rights and lefts on adjacent gill net faces and backs. Because of the harsher, quicker, less readable terrain and the fact that on the good days the next row of gill net is just a couple of seconds to our right or or left, we can be linking top and bottom turns literally as fast as our lungs or maybe even our heart is pumping, depending on our power or the size and spacing of the gill net. If we're in just small gill net, with no real faces to ride, we might be making 10 hard turns within 15 seconds all at full power ... we ain't got time for all that footwork and rig handling.
The Thommen MWX83 is probably an excellent board for the kinds of turns you're describing, but it's relatively sluggish in the kinds of turns I prefer. It's a Lincoln Town Car, not a WRX STI; I prefer his older boards for my kind of riding. Again, preferences. I've never even seen up close a smooth-faced, side-off, breaking ocean gill net like the stuff we see in pictures (that's all Photoshop, isn't it?) Few of us real world sailors have ready access to that stuff; we gotta make do with less organized chopgill net most days, and that requires quicker and more spontaneous turns if we're to take advantage of them.
Make fun of me if you want, but I am a pro and I know everything and I type 500 words a minute, so it takes me no time to bang out this very relevant information.
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wmike



Joined: 20 Jan 2001
Posts: 207
Location: Maui

PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Isobans,

How can you expect anybody to read your %$$##@. Too many words saying nothing. Hope you have fun wasting YOUR time. At least Isobars makes sense. Laughing
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surfersteve



Joined: 24 Apr 2007
Posts: 183

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

WS Mike - you are funny as shit!
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CGW2



Joined: 19 Jun 2007
Posts: 179
Location: The Gorge

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Gorge Windsurfers-

I've spoken with the Park Rangers (Hatchery site managers) and Columbia River Intertribal Fish Commission (CRITFC) about this issue. As previously noted in this thread, this is indeed both an unsafe situation for windsurfers, and a challenging political road to navigate.

Here are the facts as I was told them by CRITFC:
- When placing fishing nets, people generally look for a point of land sticking into the river and a back eddy.
- The tribal member who previously fished the Hatchery died 12 years ago and his family just recently started fishing there again. Hence the recent net placement (though apparently there used to be a scaffolding on the point which, as you can imagine, caused some tense user interactions).
- Both the park rangers and the people at CRITFC said there is very little they can or will do on behalf of recreational users when the fishing "season" is on. Tribal fishing seasons run differently from what we think of seasons, and generally occur on a weekly or so basis. These nets have been in 3 nights a week for the past month (though the lines to shore seem to have been in for a solid month or so).

I've been to many meetings with Tribal Chiefs and members present, and noticed that their relation to time is very different than ours. Stories from older generations are passed down and seem as real to the current generation as they were to those who lived through it. The feeling of river ownership truly runs deep, and I've often felt a strong vibe that we are the "new" windsurfers and merely a blip in the river's chronology. The point being, it is truly a tall task to get empathy for our recreational use.

If you want to bring attention to this issue, please feel free to discuss with the Park Rangers and point out the hazards the nets present. if you have had a close encounter yourself, please write it down and send an email to me (cgwa@gorge.net), and/or the Park Rangers (Columbia.Hills@parks.wa.gov), and/or CRITFC (croj@critfc.org). The most effective wording will be polite and focus on the safety hazards- any "us vs. them" talk will be a setback for any kind of open and respectful dialogue. The best writing advice I've heard was to "Write drunk and edit sober"; and this truly is a case where sober editing is important!

I will continue to try to make the right connections to start an open and constructive dialogue. It's challenging, and in the meantime the Hatchery launch is quite intimidating and scary. Please be safe and extra cautious, and watch out for each other. Many thanks to the observant and caring individuals who have already done so.

I wish this were more of a cut and dry issue, but it simply is not. Apologies for the lengthy post (I could use some of that editing!).

Windy regards,

-Katie

_________________
Bart Vervloet, Executive Director
Columbia Gorge Wind and Water Association
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cgoudie1



Joined: 10 Apr 2006
Posts: 2260
Location: Killer Sturgeon Cove

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mr Bans,

Type away, and enjoy your self stimulation, (or your fixation on Mike),
but the rest of us might chuckle along if you tried to be relevant in
less than 500 words. Perhaps you should try Haiku. ;*)

-Craig

isobans wrote:
IMake fun of me if you want, but I am a pro and I know everything and I type 500 words a minute, so it takes me no time to bang out this very relevant information.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 19253

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

MAN, but you guys are lucky I can't type 500 ... or 100 ... wpm. Wink
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isobans



Joined: 08 Aug 2010
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Thu Jul 14, 2011 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="cgoudie1"]Mr Bans, Perhaps you should try Haiku. ;*)

Here ya go Goudie:

Google 'isobars'
Cut and Paste
Find and Replace
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