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capetonian
Joined: 11 Aug 2006
Posts: 1197
Location: Florida
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 Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| MattD wrote: | | My suggestion was the Severne Turbo 8.1m - rigs on a 460 w/ boom cutout. How well would his powerex RDM mast match this sail (wrt mast curve)? I rig my 8.6 on an old constant curve Sailworks and it works well enough, though I could never find a solid answer on Severne SDM mast curves. |
Severne is the same mast curve as Gaastra and Maui Sails. Maui Sails describes their curve as "true constant curve" as the tip and base both have a similar flex, but most people I've asked about mast curves describe the Gaastra/Maui Sails curve as "stiff top".
Allegedly Naish is also the same "stiff top" mast curve.
Powerex sits somewhere between "stiff top" and "flex top", and is most similar to Goya/Ezzy/Simmer, so if I was the OP I'd stick to those brands, though a non high performance sail from any brand might work - I've had good results with a Gaastra Pilot (I think that is Gaastra's cheapest freeride sail) on a Powerex RDM. |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| capetonian wrote: | | MattD wrote: | | My suggestion was the Severne Turbo 8.1m - rigs on a 460 w/ boom cutout. How well would his powerex RDM mast match this sail (wrt mast curve)? I rig my 8.6 on an old constant curve Sailworks and it works well enough, though I could never find a solid answer on Severne SDM mast curves. |
Severne is the same mast curve as Gaastra and Maui Sails. Maui Sails describes their curve as "true constant curve" as the tip and base both have a similar flex, but most people I've asked about mast curves describe the Gaastra/Maui Sails curve as "stiff top".
Allegedly Naish is also the same "stiff top" mast curve.
Powerex sits somewhere between "stiff top" and "flex top", and is most similar to Goya/Ezzy/Simmer, so if I was the OP I'd stick to those brands, though a non high performance sail from any brand might work - I've had good results with a Gaastra Pilot (I think that is Gaastra's cheapest freeride sail) on a Powerex RDM. |
Severene have 3 lines of just RDM, red, white , blue different carbon %. There SDM from SURF magazine is constant curve flex top, quite a bit different than the RDMs.
The rest of the mast listed above, including the Naish firestick have been either hard top or hard top constant curve, also call stiff/very stiff top.
The manufactures can gently manipulate the # to sure the catagory they want to be in.
Powerex has always been "middle of the road" in respect to mast bend curve, suits most. Powerex used to make Ezzy, now Ezzy made by NoLimitz but to p/x specs.
Goya made by NoLimtz, and Severne is mostly constant curve, some constant curve hard top, made by , I don't know who.
Some Maui sails are cc others cc hard top
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 5:37 pm Post subject: |
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Severne RDM's are identical in bend to Naish RDM's. I use Severne Redline RDM's for all my Naish Force sails. Both are hard top, not CC.
Coachg |
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U2U2U2
Joined: 06 Jul 2001
Posts: 5467
Location: Shipsterns Bluff, Tasmania. Colorado
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2012 9:45 pm Post subject: |
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| coachg wrote: | Severne RDM's are identical in bend to Naish RDM's. I use Severne Redline RDM's for all my Naish Force sails. Both are hard top, not CC.
Coachg |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpURmNOVzUU
Severne does not show what the bend curve is on their site.
from the 6 masts I have figures on from Petermanthey vary for RDMs ,10 11.1 9.8 10.2 10.6 11.6 average of 10.5
they all fall into constant curve, for any to be considered hard top they would need to be a 9.
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coachg
Joined: 10 Sep 2000
Posts: 3550
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 2:27 am Post subject: |
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No specs, he just says he wants curve in the middle and avoids flex at the top at the 2:55 mark in the video. I'll have to measure mine. How old are your RDM's. I have the 2011s that I got to replace my broken Naish Firesticks after trying Nolimitz. The sails set much better on the Redline then the Nolimitz.
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arden
Joined: 26 Jun 2000
Posts: 28
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2012 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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pariah99 - I used to be a Hoofer as well '96 -'01. I would recommend you try the Prodigy boards when you can. It sails pretty close to the early design formula boards, plus it can always sail you out and back from the wind line that's usually on the inside (if you're sailing off the terrace as opposed to Tenney). That should give you a decent feel for what you think of the really wide boards.
I would also recommend the Severne Turbo. I have a 6.0 and 7.5 (rigs on 460 or even 430 in a pinch). They work well for me because I like the twin cams giving the sail shape even in the lulls to keep it planing, plus adds stability on the high end. This is very great in the gusty winds we tend to get in the midwest (I sail primarily on Lake Winnebago now).
Good luck!
Arden |
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pariah99
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 3:28 pm Post subject: |
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| arden wrote: | | pariah99 - I used to be a Hoofer as well '96 -'01. I would recommend you try the Prodigy boards when you can. It sails pretty close to the early design formula boards, plus it can always sail you out and back from the wind line that's usually on the inside (if you're sailing off the terrace as opposed to Tenney). That should give you a decent feel for what you think of the really wide boards. |
I have taken out prodigys on marginal days with the biggest sail I could find. They steer like a cow, but they do plane pretty easily. Unfortunately, a lot of them are pretty beat up and the footstraps do next to nothing since they are so worn. Next season I'm probably going to raid the footstrap locker to see if I can find some that are serviceable for when I want to go out on one.
| Quote: |
I would also recommend the Severne Turbo. I have a 6.0 and 7.5 (rigs on 460 or even 430 in a pinch). They work well for me because I like the twin cams giving the sail shape even in the lulls to keep it planing, plus adds stability on the high end. This is very great in the gusty winds we tend to get in the midwest (I sail primarily on Lake Winnebago now).
Good luck!
Arden |
I'm going to try MattD's turbo next season to see how well it handles. I haven't really had any experience with cam sails so I'm unfamiliar as to how different they feel, but a lot of midwest sailors have told me that they're nice for gusty conditions.
My only bug with the severnes is that I've found *A LOT* of conflicting information regarding mast curves. I wish that companies would quote mast curves along with their stiffness specs so that we can make more informed decisions.
Best as I can tell, the unifiber site has a pretty comprehensive database of mast curves, but it's by sail manufacturer. I'm about 99% sure my powerex rdm is constant curve, but the severnes are apparently leaning more towards stiff top. Exactly how much will the sails performance and/or durability suffer by matching it up with the wrong mast curve? Just from the forces involved, I imagine that the softer tip will cause the top to spill more power; but, in the real world, is that loss noticable, or is it just a paper tiger? |
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arden
Joined: 26 Jun 2000
Posts: 28
Location: Wisconsin
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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I have sailed my Turbo 6.0 on both severne (enigma 430) and pryde (x6 430) masts, and only notice a small difference in how it looks statically on land. The less downhaul, the less noticeable. The twist is more even/gradual with the severne mast, a bit more hooked with the pryde at highest downhaul setting. This slight difference on land feels like even less difference on the water, in my opinion. So, probably not worth a ton of consideration - just get a light and responsive mast and you should be good to go.
On the reflex race sails it makes a bit more difference running a severne mast versus the pryde mast.
As far as cambers go, the Turbo's are pretty easy. It might take a bit of getting used to for rigging vs a no-cam sail, so try to have someone show you. I think they are well worth the extra step of snapping them on the mast. The powered feel is much more steady. |
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scargo
Joined: 19 May 2007
Posts: 394
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 7:11 pm Post subject: |
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| cam v. camless is beyond the scope of the current thread, but since the issue has been raised, you should read what's been posted before. Suffice to say you'll find a lot of people who disagree with the statement that "the powered feel is much more steady." |
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pariah99
Joined: 31 Dec 2011
Posts: 8
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| Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:09 pm Post subject: |
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| scargo wrote: | | cam v. camless is beyond the scope of the current thread, but since the issue has been raised, you should read what's been posted before. Suffice to say you'll find a lot of people who disagree with the statement that "the powered feel is much more steady." |
I understand that the point of the cams, and I do not see them as a panacea for light wind planing; I do think that my situation would be pretty much an ideal case for stability, since the wind is prone to sudden gusts, even on light-wind days.
Some of the days I sailed last season, I was having a hard time finding the sweet spot for my harness lines due to what I now suspect is the pull point shifting due to the combination of the sail shape changing and the boom flexing (I ended up breaking one and even got it on video!) The ride is noticably more stable now that I have a stiffer boom, and I doubt that cambers would really hurt - I don't really plan to waterstart on days I use the sail, and a little extra weight uphauling is something I don't really mind.
I am slightly worried about getting gybes and tacks down with cambers, but honestly, if there's enough wind to practice gybes, I'll probably be using a smaller, uncambered sail anyway.
Thanks everybody for sharing their experiences. I'm looking really hard at possibly trying one of the 8m-ish size severnes. Isthmus Sailboards sells them so I'll ask the owner if I could try rigging one up with my mast/boom. |
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