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Who is fighting all of these regulations?
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mac



Joined: 07 Mar 1999
Posts: 5351

PostPosted: Sun May 20, 2012 11:36 am    Post subject: Who is fighting all of these regulations? Reply with quote

There are so many claims about the unreasonableness of regulations, and how they are preventing the job creators from creating jobs for the people who are unemployed. Much of the money for this comes from the carbon industry which is fighting regulation of CO2, and the financial industry, which is fighting regulation of gambling with investment money. Just for fun, let's look at what deregulation meant to Exxon, according to the new book by Steve Coll, "Private Empire, ExxonMobil and American Power."

You don't have to read far to see how irresponsible cost-cutting led to the Exxon-Valdez spill. In 1982, Exxon employed 182,000 people. when oil prices dropped, they cut about 80,000 jobs. Not surprisingly given the attitude of their defenders, they demoted their top environmental guy and all the folks who had worked on developing the manual for disaster management. They increased workload in the field, but cut crews for their tankers. Now this meant that Exxon was successful financially--in 1987 they reported more annual profit per employee than any other major American corporation--but it meant that they had little oversight of their more risky endeavors.

Perhaps some oversight of Hazelwood, or a larger crew with expertise, might have prevented the spill. Hazelwood had navigated this passage over a hundred times, but admits to having had "two or three vidkas at the Pipeline Club.." Exxon knew about Hazelwood's alcohol problem; he had been overheard ordering beer on a ship radio, and had been told to "take care" of his problem. Quite a level of oversight of an employee making about $180,000 a year in 1989, eh? Especially with a cargo of over one million barrels of crude.

Now we could claim that they legal system took care of all of the damage that Exxon did, couldn't we? Laugh out loud.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2703

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 5:39 am    Post subject: Re: Who is fighting all of these regulations? Reply with quote

mac wrote:
...and how they are preventing the job creators from creating jobs for the people who are unemployed...

Worth watching.

.
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techno900



Joined: 28 Mar 2001
Posts: 1492

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

pueno,

It's the chicken or the egg question. No one creates a product or job if there isn't a market/need (buyer) for the product/service. It's the consumer that pretty much determines what needs to be made or serviced (the premise of the video), but when it's determined by someone that a widget is needed, who develops, makes, advertises and distributes the widget?

It's not the folks that found a need for the widget or the potential buyers/consumers, it's the capitalist that has the money to create and manufacture the widget.

If I came up with a great idea for a new product or service, I would most likely research how to make the product and market it for sale. Since I am not an entrepreneur, I would most likely find someone to whom I can sell my idea because they have the means/money and know how to produce the item. Those guys are the job creators. They invest, develop, hire, advertise, distribute and sell the item, not the consumer. They are also the ones taking the risk and creating jobs.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14313

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just judging by the topic question, the answer includes center and right TR and news networks, their center and right guests, the Tea Party, the Republicans elected expressly to intelligently mitigate the more oppressive regulations, and Democrats with a reality gene even though it is recessive.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2703

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Those guys are the job creators.

Standard GOP talking point -- goes back to Reagan's "trickle down" theory, which George Sr. called "voodoo economics" and which most now agree DID NOT WORK.
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coboardhead



Joined: 26 Oct 2009
Posts: 1960

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I spent this last weekend exploring indian ruins and badlands in northwest New Mexico. Oil and gas wells have been producing in this area for decades. Recently, a new flurry of drilling has taken place.

As we set up our solar eclipse viewing site on a bluff overlooking an expansive area of badlands, mesas, bluffs and arroyos, I was struck by the stark difference in the appearance of the older and newer facilities that dotted the landscape.

In the older developments, the well sites were located with apparent disregard for the sensitivity of the site...A hilltop might be leveled, a well site might encroach on a drainage, access roads follow ridgetops etc. The newer developments were much more sensitive and purposeful. Geologic features were maintained. Erosion control facilities were installed. Sensitive views were retained.

The regulations, developed and enacted in the interim between the developments, have had a significant impact on the environmental, societal and cultural preservation of this area. When the oil is depleted the newer construction will be much easier to reclaim.

I wonder if those that rail against these regulations have spent any time in these environments? I understand these regulations add more energy costs...in the short term. But, if we feel this area has any value (and I believe it does), these costs should be included in the costs at the pump.

This may place an unfair burden on domestic producers. But, what would be wrong with increasing tarrifs on foreign oil sources that do not practice this environmental sensitivity to level the playing field? I am definitely not opposed to the energy development in this area. But, let's continue to be smart about it.
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swchandler



Joined: 08 Nov 1993
Posts: 5884

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're right pueno, the video was worth watching. Hanauer is truly spot on in my view. After watching the linked video, I also viewed another one at the site where Neil Cavuto interviewed Nick Hanauer on Fox News. I couldn't believe what a jerk Cavuto was. It's hard to believe that his rude antics could even remotely be viewed as thoughtful or professional in any way. Why would Fox News hire such a creep to represent their network? To me, it says a lot about their lack of credible standards.
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pueno



Joined: 03 Mar 2007
Posts: 2703

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

swchandler wrote:
You're right pueno, the video was worth watching. Hanauer is truly spot on in my view. After watching the linked video, I also viewed another one at the site where Neil Cavuto interviewed Nick Hanauer on Fox News. I couldn't believe what a jerk Cavuto was. It's hard to believe that his rude antics could even remotely be viewed as thoughtful or professional in any way. Why would Fox News hire such a creep to represent their network? To me, it says a lot about their lack of credible standards.

I also watched that interview with Cavuto. What an enormous A-HOLE! But, of course, it's Fox. What else would we expect?

Why would Fox hire such a creep? Fox hired Hannity, O'Reilly, Palin, and Beck. I think they've developed a special interview technique to hire annoying, rude abrasiveness and sheer stupidity so that the rabid righties can identify with them.

And you'll notice that four or five here DO identify with Fox.
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isobars



Joined: 12 Dec 1999
Posts: 14313

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 3:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

coboardhead wrote:
I spent this last weekend exploring indian ruins and badlands in northwest New Mexico. ...

The regulations, developed and enacted in the interim between the developments, have had a significant impact on the environmental, societal and cultural preservation of this area. When the oil is depleted the newer construction will be much easier to reclaim.

I wonder if those that rail against these regulations have spent any time in these environments?


I LIVED on Highway 44's southeastern end not far from those ruins and smack dab IN those gorgeous badlands for 16 years; literally my back yard was 10 acres of them, which I walked and/or climbed in awe every evening with my dogs. I drove through the specific badlands you refer to near Nageezi hundreds of times on my way to and from WSing at Morgan Lake. I've driven all over the dirt roads in and around the badlands and the ruins around Chaco Canyon and hiked much of the ruins, from the early 1970s to the end of the century. Beyond that, I've walked Anasazi, Hopi, Navajo, Apache, etc. lands and ruins throughout every nook and cranny of CO, UT, AZ, and NM during the thousands of hours over 30 years I've spent exploring the Four Corners Area, which I consider the finest place to live and play in in all of North America.

Nobody of any consequence is advocating any end to the kind of regulations you're disingenuously bringing up; that's just nonsensical left wing BS like the War On Women, Throwing Granny Off the Social Security Cliff, and Obama's accusation that we "Want to Poison the Water Supply".

Declaring the desert a wetlands after a guy's home is built with state approval, inventing the endangered blunt-nosed lizard to shut down vast tracts of land, requiring every pool or spa to install permanent handicapped lifts no one uses and not available in quantity anyway, and thousands of even dumber regulations costing many billions of dollars and achieving NOTH-THING -- THAT'S what sane people want to end.

Such games denigrate your credibility.
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feuser



Joined: 29 Oct 2002
Posts: 1395

PostPosted: Mon May 21, 2012 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

techno900 wrote:
Those guys are the job creators. They invest, develop, hire, advertise, distribute and sell the item, not the consumer. They are also the ones taking the risk and creating jobs.



No, they're not job creators, they're investors. Venture capitalists. Risk takers.

Job creators is, in fact, a neologism that masquerades the fact that the creation of jobs depends on a number of factors:
1. Products (inventors, entrepreneurs)
2. Consumers (markets)
3. Lenders (capital)

There's no single "Job creator" role in here. And, sometimes, outside capital is indeed optional. I've started a business that was cash-flow positive from day one. It's small but hey.

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florian - ny22

http://www.windsurfing.kasail.com/
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